What Dodge equivilent??? Certainly not the 400hp SVT Challenger which I would think would be more compareable to the lower model SS around 400hp only heavier.

 

If I can't get a 300hp+ version @36xx pounds or less (turbo 6 is fine with me) with the sporty suspension package I'll look elsewhere. Don't care what wizardry they pull with gearing, cylinder deactivation, direct injection, suspension tuning, wide tires etc. It'll still get middle of the road fuel economy and whisper "im a fat ***" in my ear every time I take it to the twisties or autocrossing, even if it pulls good numbers. Even if it IS beautiful.

10 years from now I hope to get myself in a vastly downsized 3200-3300lb version of the camaro, with excellent styling and a nice strong turbo-6 motor. I really (REALLY) hope that I get to spend 3 or 4 of those years happily waiting in an RS 5th gen.

Part of me is happy that all the auto manufacturers are getting spanked by these new mileage laws. It's going to force them to build smaller, significantly lighter vehicles. That's the kind of vehicle I prefer. I HATE the constant bloat that every single make and model has undergone since I got my license at 14. A 3200lb rear wheel drive car with 260hp and minus a bunch of crappy interior gizmos that only mean it needs service more often is so much more appealing to me than a 3800lb 400hp car. So. Much. Pony cars started life as COMPACTS, way back. It's about time they return to that classification. Small car, grunty engine, rear wheel drive, aggressive styling. If I really want 400hp I can turn to the aftermarket after enjoying the first 3 years of my car in it's stock configuration.

This isn't meant to be a negative post, or to hate on the 5th gen. It'll undoubtedly be an awesome car, extremely enjoyable, and we know it's pretty. But I have a thing about weight, I don't like it, I don't like how it makes a car feel, even if you compensate with extra wide tires and good tuning. Transitions and especially low speed maneuvers suffer greatly with weight, and I spend my time on actual roads, not on 100mph sweepers. And I don't get free gas.

Hell, it's almost to the point that I'm tempted to buy a 3000lb foxbody and put 10k into a suspension/body/engine makeover and have myself a ball. Or maybe a nice 4th gen, with the same treatment. I wonder what one of those would do with one of GM's new turbo-6s and an upgraded suspension? You can make them look pretty damn nice.

But I want a 5th gen. It's so damn beautiful.

 

I agree with most of your post. I want a 5th gen too. But I won't buy one at anything around TWO TONS. I've virtually written it off. End of story.

 

Yeah, 3200lb and 260hp would be great if it were possible with crash standards. Its not just feature bloat......which is pretty much demanded these days due to imports making them standard. To get a 3200lb car that passes crash tests and fits drivers over 6' without exotic expensive materials would be a major engineering accomplishment. Look at the 300hp japanese awd drive twins. They are around 3200lbs, pretty tiny and expensive. My daily driver is 3300lb 170hp subaru 08 legacy. It's an ok car but if I could get awd + 30+mpg in something that did not require me to squeeze myself in I would jump on it. The GT version is much faster but weighs about 200lbs more.

FYI, I was just reading an article comparing the GT-r, M3 and the 911. All sports cars with 400hp+ and little to no room in the back seat. They all weigh 3700 to 4000lbs. Its not easy to give you guys what you want. And it would sure be a lot more expenseive.

 

I agree and will need to judge the 5th Gen in production trim with many questions answered. I don't know if anything I've seen, read or heard via rumor is a deal breaker at this point but when it's all put together and sitting in front of me I'll be able to make a better choice. Interior, curb weight and sticker price are points of interest right now.

One thing is for sure with the high price of gas. Lots of nice V8 4th Gen F-bodies are on the market because they are seen as gas pigs. I'll tell ya a nice 01-02 SS or WS6 convert with a six-speed is a very tempting car if the 5th gen isn't worth the price of admission.

 

Are we sure about that pecking order?

That is

1. V6 coupe
2. SS with LS3
3. Z/28 with LSA (or other S/C variant)

In the past, the SS always had the top engine. In the distant past, the SS had the big, honkin' engine, and the Z/28 had the revver. It was about 200 pounds lighter than the big block SS.

 

It seems most likely that the SS will be a naturally aspirated V8 and the Z28 will be the supercharged Camaro that is more or less the Chevy version of the GT500. My point was that since the SS will be lighter and naturally aspirated it is almost more like the original Z28 than the 2 ton blown one will be. Which is sort of amusing in an a way since those guys were adamant that the early Z was the ultimate Camaro and as such the new top dog should be the Z28, and they really wanted a Z06 Camaro treatment. Looks like the top one will at least be called Z28 but it got the GT500 treatment, not the Z06 treatment.

 

Interesting.

If there had been an LS6 Camaro in 1970, would that have been the ultimate Camaro, or would it have been the Z28 with the LT1?

In 1969, I'd say that the COPO 427 was the ultimate Camaro, not the Z28, but it would depend on what your measuring stick is.

Once the big blocks were gone, the confusion was gone.

But now, with superchargers, it's back. And yes, things are reversed.

 

I scanned the article from the magazine:

 

pics look gorgeous.....love everything (but those kmart looking reverse lights).

 

R&T didn't fix the headlights? Now how can anyone take anything they put in writing as valid?