I understand completely...

I could careless what she buys

 

I understand I was more so saying him having a Toyota doesn't have anything to do w/this....since he was only complaining about you...

Back to the topic count me as one who is stoked that there will be a "blown" z28!

 

I'm picturing the two parked next to each other in my garage. That's a lot of beef. I'd imagine that if a tornado were to hit my house, the only thing left would be the foundation and the two cars.

The other day I was at the store and parked next to a yellow 5th gen. It was amazing how close in size it looked next to my car.

 

Oh, I don't know. Can you imagine if the shoe were on the other foot and Gloria drove a Toyota, the knives he'd throw at her?

I find SSbaby to be a curious fellow.

He browbeats people with a lifetime of Camaro enthusiasm, ownership, and lifestyle as not knowing what a Camaro is or should be, yet he himself has had virtually zero exposure to the cars or the people who love them.

He belittles the opinions of prospective buyers *with cash in hand mind you*, on their preferences for the car with which they would want to pay their hard earned money for, yet he himself will never buy one, nor even likely get the opportunity to buy one.

He insults people on this board who race frequently, that their opinions on racetrack dynamics are invalid, because they are "amatuers", yet he himself doesn't race at all.

He plainy states to a fellow enthusiast and longtime board member, who also happens to own a Ford, on how DARE she even voice an opinion on a GM site, yet he tools around daily in his Toyota.

Sounds alot like a troll to me.

In fact, if I didn't know better (and maybe I don't), I might even think that he is a planted mole, here purely to disrupt and blunt any productive, intellectual discussions which may lead to a better GM and better GM products.

Think about that.

 

While there are things that I'm not fond of on the current car, a convertible Z28 is the type of car that would allow me to overlook the flaws of the platform (for me that would primarily be poor interior design, but also visibility issues - weight is a non-issue for my intended use).

I would never see a road course in the car, and only limited drag strip use (heck my current SS last saw a drag strip in 2003). I'd take it to the track a few times to see what it does, tweak it here and there, then enjoy the hell out of it. I suspect my useage pattern would mirror the pattern for the majority of prospective buyers.

I would cross shop it with a CTS-V Coupe. The decision would be open air S/C V8 motoring in South Florida v. the superior refinement and luxury of the CTS-V. It's a tougher call than I'd like to admit.

 

I've got nothing against "Gloria" but she is an obvious Ford enthusiast who tends to pump up Ford....of course her opinions will be scrutinized more than others this being a GM board.

SSbaby has always been nice to me...& I think he is like many of us...gets frustrated with all the "weight" talk & "bashing"...GM is aware of the increased mass of their vehicles (not just the Camaro) & has publicly stated that will be addressed w/their next generation of vehicles. The Camaro we've got is a beautiful car....not made for everyone & as you know...but we should be happy its even available! We went years without 1 and bitched & moaned everyday about it. IMO the Camaro team did the best possible job making this car available to us with limited resources....I'm thankful for that.

I think its great the Camaro is doing so well they are talking about additional models such as the Z28 & high end V-6 models. There are customers who will buy them....lots of them.

The fact is the decisions are made on this car...we can complain all we want...but that's not going to change the fact. Maybe next time....

 

The last time the Z/28 was purely a "track car" was 1967-68. Even in 1969 it was slowly evolving into something else. Perhaps some may claim the 3rd gen 1LEs, however how many of those were actually run on the track? The reality is, there hasn't been a Z/28 like the Z/28 some have been chiming for it decades. This is the 21st century and manufacturers simply don't build race only "track cars" for the street any more, save for the ones that truly are "track cars" and are not given VINs or are allowed on the street. Today's street/performance cars need to be safe and reliable just as much as they need to perform. There are some people here that seem to forget this. As I wrote earlier, "One demands perfection, even when it is not achievable within the goals of the market model where their car exists". Its time for a dose of reality of what actually is achievable with the limitations (cost, market, safety, emissions, demand) that exist in 2010. Its no longer 1969. Some people forget this.

 

This is not about Gloria, who BTW, I feel posts fair, well thought out and interesting comments. She merely is the latest wipping boy for the small cabal of thought police here, who are ill equipped to defend they're positions and resort to personalized attacks.

 

You have a point there. But I've been told the "next one will be better".

 

I was following you right up until this. A planted mole... seriously.
I enjoy listening to a good conspiracy theory from time to time but isn't this a stretch? What motive and by who?

I'd love to give this board and our intellectual discussions all the credit they deserve but we both know well that GM will do what's best for them regardless of our banter.

 

Okay, maybe I should have put a winkie smiley after that...


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maybe not......

 

I've yet to read anyone (unless I missed it) actually JUSTIFY building a, heavy, gas thirsty, expensive, poor(er) handling Camaro in TODAY's economic / energy climate.....versus, building a (even slightly) lighter than stock, less thirsty, more simple, NA, cheaper than SC'd, world class handling Camaro....

Hardly anyone in the rest of the civilized world, save some rich middle-eastern oil money people, will have any interest in this SC'd version. This is a North American car only.

A Z/28 that I would have hoped for would have been a joy to drive, stood up to and even surpassed it's competition in EVERY way....instead of being labled "heavy" and a "pig that won't turn".....and now someone at GM who's stuck in 1968 wants to throw a heavy, gas eating, expensive SC'd engine in the already overweight Camaro and thinks because it'll match a 3 YO Ford model, that they're doing a good thing....even with that kind of thinking helping to cause their own near demise.

Probably the same person who's never considered heal-toe pedal placement, thought isolating the driver from steering input was a good thing, using Impala rated spring and shocks would keep the secretaries happy....and used sun visors from the Aveo would be OK in a $30k car.

SOMEBODY needs to remove their heads from their @$$e$ and look at the calendar...it's almost 2010...and also, stop following and start leading for once.

 

It's cost effective (by using existing parts) & will sell circles around a "lightweight" Z28 w/out a HP bump. Proven market by Ford (CTS-V, CTS-V Coupe, CTS-V Sportwagon, ZR1)...what else do you need?

BTW how would building a lighter version be cheaper...these would ALL be one of a kind parts (lighter materials = more $)....I've yet to hear you're explaination.

 

Actually, I don't agree. There are people of ALL brand persuasions looking for a car which is simply a joy to drive. Once those "opinion makers" get theirs, the poseurs will follow. Certainly, BMW and Audi have this **** down to a precise science. The formula works, dramatically.

Why we're getting what we're getting is because there is no other alternative. GM has painted itself into a corner. It made the decision around 2006-ish, that the new Camaro HAD to have a structure where even the convertible could withstand 600(+) hp. Why? I don't know. Let's call it 2007 GT500 fixation. So, for everyone without 600 hp in your Camaro, know that you are still carrying the water for it.

 

Your logic is flawed. The ONLY reason the V series sell so well is that there is NO other engine choice for the CTS series. You get the V6 or the big engines....the ZR1 is an animal to itself and Ford has no other choice if it wants to better GM, by SC-ing their engines....do they have a NA 426hp engine? Much less a 505++ hp NA engine....

How can you say that you 'know' a SC'd model would out sell a better handling Camaro?!?!? There is no choice as things now stand.....unless you're clarvoiant...

Let's imagine the Ad's....."We threw this big ol' heavy supercharger on it and as long as you don't have to turn very much, it'll out run a 3 YO GT500!"........or....."Some people think that a one trick pony makes a world class car. At GM we already have the power, now we've added world class handling in a lighter, more fuel efficient package, that'll run with cars costing 5X as much."

The SC'd engine adds over $20k to the CTS V6 models.....I think I could spend some serious $$ making lighter components with that much cash.