Then why mention it when this discussion for many pages now has been the handling associated with this car?

I made no effort to discredit you, in fact I went out of my way in giving you opportunities to remove the foot from your mouth.

 

Hmmm. If it is 90-100lbs then I still think it is going to be pretty tough to pull another 100lbs out like you say. I doubt you are going to get 25lbs at each corner just switching some control arms to a different material.

 

Absolutely. In these parts used 2008 S5's are going for mid $50Ks. New 2010s are going for low to mid $60Ks.

If the Camaro Z/28 does not MSRP for under $50K, it will fail. My guess is around $46K MSRP.

 

It has to do with the discussion as it has been taking place.

My how excitable you become. I didn't throw a thing. All I did was offer you a counterpoint / look into the mirror. You made the statements. Support them.

 

Being a smaller car does not mean that it has to have less interior space. The current corvette has great interior room. The cramped feeling of the cars you mentioned are due to several factors...the foxbody platform the SN95 was built on was for a VERY narrow car originally, with a really crappy interior layout, and the other two cars both adhere to the general german trend of cars fitting like a running shoe...comfortable but hardly "roomy." A smaller Camaro need not have either of those problems with an intelligently designed interior. Americans in general kind of need to downsize along with their cars though...

However, I HAVE to disagree with you on the Cobalt comment. That's exactly the size we need....though a bit wider and lower. Interior space in the cobalt is pretty damn good, and adding a couple inches of width would make it even better. It also has rear seats that are easily as comfy, or better, than in the Camaro (although a rear drive layout would eat away at some of that so I think it'd probably end up about even). So yeah...I have to disagree. That's the size we should be aiming for. Foxbody Mustang sized with a few inches of extra width for some more hip and shoulder room (and a good stance!). 3400lbs isn't out of the question at all given those parameters.

*Edit* And holy crap...some of the people in here have gotten extremely personal and defensive about some of us thinking the car, and especially it's higher performance variants, went in the wrong direction. It's a car people. It's a good car. It's comparing well with the current Mustang....and the current Mustang is getting RAVE reviews. So yeah..the Camaro is a great car. It's just heavy. I look forward to the possible V6 "performance" variant idea that is getting bandied about. A higher output version on the V6 car with suspension tuning that alleviates the tuned-in understeer the current vehicle apparently has would be right up my alley!

 

I actually have faith in GM will get the car much better. I love everything about this car. The motor and tranny are great, the looks are awesome, except for the back up lights, but the handling needs improvement, and so does the weight.
And for all those people complaining about us complaining about the weight, guess what GM is listeneing and I bet the next gen camaro will be lighter

 

You might be surprised. Many of the suspension bits are way heavier than they need to be because of the materials they used. 15lbs at each corner is very workable. There's in depth discussions of this on some of the Mustang forums. The stock rims are also quite heavy...3 or 4 pounds can be lost at each corner with that as well. The exhaust system is also needlessly heavy. With the development of the car now fully paid for, Ford is really trying to put it on a diet, as that's been the main concern with the car. I'm going to guess at a 175lb weight loss.

The camaro has far more emotional appeal to me...it's a much better looking car, so I REALLY hope that a couple years down the line Chevrolet is able to do something similar with the SS. The SS uses steel versions of the suspension hardware on the CTS, doesn't it?

 

Oh, without a doubt. I'm sure it will. As will the Mustang. The fuel regs alone will ensure that, without any of our bitching

I highly suspect that GM might revise the suspension tuning, as well as fiddle with the steering, well before the next generation. While weight will always be an issue, tuning the chassis for a less understeer, as well as using maybe a bit more negative camber on the front tires, would likely make the vehicle feel worlds better. If GM offered a "Track Pack" with these revised settings, and a slightly higher spring/damper rate, and perhaps a bit more roll stiffness in the rear, the vehicle might be able to overcome it's weight disadvantages without any weight loss at all. It IS an inherently more balanced platform than the Mustang.

However....a Z/28 that is in the same weight class as a 5 series BMW is just...yeah. No way. Sorry.

 

You know I just had a thought. Lets say ther Z will be 10k more than the SS in price. Basically you are going to get a car that will probably handle a little worse then the SS due to the added weight, but will be very fast in a straight line, which the SS already is. Now take that same 10k ands put iut into a 1LE SS Camaro and see what happens. With 10k I am sure you could dump 200+ pounds of this car, maybe more. Now you have a car that handles much better, brakes better and will be faster in a straight line. Not sure how well the car would sell compared to a blown Camaro but I think it could work.

 

It would seem logical that the MSRP of this Z28 will be right around the same MSRP of the same year GT500. The base MSRP of the 2010 GT500 is $46,325. What it will be in 2011/12 (or whenever the Z28 debuts)....who knows. Probably not lower.

 

Well seeing as how you weren't involved in any of the discussions, why did you mention what I said? I wasn't talking to you before or after the skidpad comment. You don't make much sense.

I'm not denying the car needs improvements. The constant bashing of it is the problem. Every thread the complaining few get into just turns into a weight/handling thread. Hasn't that been hashed out enough? Its gone way beyond constructive criticism with posts like these:

There are countless others. Simply re-read the first 5 or pages of this thread. I'm not the only saying the bashing is old. The same group of complainers just group up on everyone one at a time til that person just fades away so your all left to your b!tchfest.

 

CTS is on Sigma whereas Camaro is on Zeta. The two really don't have much in common.

 

Ack yeah sorry, I meant the G8. What are the suspension components made out of on the G8 GXP? Are they still steel?

 

Actually, I don't think that you could take much more than 100lbs out of the SS Camaro without SERIOUSLY decontenting the vehicle. We're talking AC delete, rear seat delete, sound deadening delete, etc. The car really doesn't have all that much room to lose weight. The basic structure used...that of a full size australian sedan...is just extremely heavy by itself. Maybe all aluminum suspension bits would help...the 20 inch wheels are also pretty damn heavy, though some steering feel would be lost with speed rated 18's...

Replacing body panels with carbon fiber might be a good idea too...though I don't think there's many that could be replaced. Perhaps the decklid and hood, and that's about it without incurring extreme costs. That might be good for 40lbs...

 

Assuming a target price in today's dollars equal to the GT500, we're only really talking about $13,000 - $14,000 over the MSRP of a 2SS. When you consider the cost difference between the LS3 and LSA is roughly $8000, just how much weight savings and suspension upgrades are you going to get for roughly $5,000 to $6,000?

Not much I'm afraid. (Especially when you consider Shelby claims the GT500KR carbon fiber hood costs about $9,000.)