Nah, carbon fiber isn't nearly that expensive to do. Shelby was price gouging horribly. They've stepped back from that price considerably when shelby owners threw a fit. Apparently Shelby had priced it at that level so that regular mustang owners could not buy shelby parts to dress up their cars to be fake Shelby mustangs. You can get a really well made carbon hood for like 1200 if you go to the right place.

What they SHOULD have done was use the formula that they used for the Corvette Grand Sport when it came to the engine. It's a regular LS3, but it's handbuilt. Rated the same as the normal vette but it's pushing quite a bit more power. Owners have dyno tested it. It's not at 430. More like 465...

Use the money saved by doing that and devote it all to weight. MIGHT have been able to get a 465hp Z/28 that came in at 3750lbs. I'd buy that in a heartbeat if they really nailed the suspension tuning and made it outhandle the upcoming GT500. I'd pay near GT500 MSRP for it too. I'd pay 45-48k for a Z/28 that was 3700lbs and 465....IF the handling were tuned differently than it is currently. If they could make it handily beat the M3 in all performance categories...and it would at 3700lbs, 465hp, and great suspension tuning....I would pay near corvette money for it.

Actually...I'd kind of like to hear what Scott has to say about an approach like that....I think it'd be a massive success. And I would be first in line, no questions asked. Ok, maybe Charlie would be in front of me....he's a bit more connected

While they're at it, somebody make a GM version of the synchrorev match that Nissan put on the 370z. The camaro's peddles are a bit far apart for heel and toeing...and I test drove a 370z and the system was PERFECT every time. Better than I can do on my best day.

 

Is bitching about the bitching any better than the bitching that is being bitched about?

 

Have we no right to feel horribly disappointed that the efforts and comments we've been saying since well before it was cancelled have basiclly been ignored....and worse yet, someone took the Z/28 in a direction that is a certian dead end and benched marked a 3YO car???

Our disappointment is that instead of using the Z/28 for TODAY's car climate, they used a model from the last time it failed....big ol' engine in a box.

If they truly want to waste their precious $$ on a car that won't be around in 3 years...then they're heading down a dead end road....will they ever learn?

 

Don't worry, I've taken my wrap over the knuckles from JasonD on a few occasions. I'm no mole.

I do, however, consider myself a straight-forward fellow. So I will get back to the topic and ask you the basic question "what's stopping you?".....

.... from buying a 3700lb Camaro V6? It's only 100lb heavier than your mandate to the GM engineers of max 3600 lbs... "otherwise count me" out threat of only two years ago.

And if you do race the cars, what is stopping you from making the car handle like its on rails?

Why do we continually need to endure your continual gripes about weight (and we all know that the Camaro is on the heavy side compared to the likes of Mustang and 3-series BMW)? You have complained about weight for over two years and yet you 'claim' (without any evidence, I must admit) to only recently have had a test drive of an SS. As I was once a fan of yours and followed your comments before realizing that you are perhaps not so well connected, how ignorant does that make you sound?

Call me rude, but I just get bored very easily when the same people say the same things in every thread or every opportunity. I almost get mad when I read the same people criticizing a car way before it's even released. Imagine if GM had you working on the project team, the Camaro would never get off the ground!

The Camaro has near 50:50 weight distribution, is fully adjustable for handling, which you seem to continually overlook. I wish you, in particular, would get over yourself and start contributing positively to such positive news from GM.

 

I might be slow to the party here, but I think the biggest issue with the Z/28 argument is personal preference. Some people don't seem to care about the direction of the Z/28 and others feel very strongly its the wrong direction. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I know this thread has gotten rather heated at times. Lets not forget we're all here because we are passionate about the Camaro!

As for my personal feelings, do I think there's room for improvement on the car? Yeah absolutely. Do I think it's an abomination of the Camaro? Definitely not in my opinion. Would I have built it differently if I was in charge of the Camaro program? Yeah, there are some things I would've done differently.

That being said, would I still buy one if I was in the position to? ABSOLUTELY! I love the looks of the car and I see potential for improvement in terms of performance, whether its GM making future improvements or me making my own improvements. And while part of me feels that I'm simply happy there is a new Camaro, I hope that GM chooses to continue to work on developing this car and make future improvements that can truly make it a world class vehicle at an affordable price.

 

That is certainly one of the biggest gripes I've had with Holden M6's. I still don't know why they don't position the pedals for heel 'n' toers!

Camaro could have been a refreshing change for the better but...? In my opinion, this is a serious let down for enthusiasts. If BMW drivers ever consider cross-shopping with Camaro, at least give them a sense of satisfaction the moment they sit in the manual Camaro for the first time.

 

You may get your wish with when the 6th gen comes out on Alpha.

 

It's worse imo. people are arguing over "opinions".

So what if some come in and complain about the negatives they perceive in the car? Those that disagree should post about the positives instead of trying to silence what they perceive to be negative opinions/criticisms from others. If people just stuck to that, fewer threads would be locked and the conversations would be far more constructive and far less personal.

It's pretty easy. z28ever comes in and says "this car is too heavy"...super83z can simply reply with "this car is not too heavy". Far more constructive than "stfu" (not a direct quote). Just agree to disagree. There are some polarizing aspects regarding the 5th gen and enthusiasts (who feel most strongest about the car) will continue to voice their opinions. You can't just expect them to sit idly.

My 2cents.

 

Good post.

However, constructive criticism is the best way to convey the correct information to GM. Case in point: it's no good saying, the car is too heavy for my tastes without having even driven the car in the street first. Some persons are relying too much on the opinion of a few influential journalists who've sample the cars around a racetrack. There's a huge difference between being constructively critical and being overly critical.

We aren't deaf, we know the Camaro is not a lightweight.

Can we at least move onto some other critical feature of the car instead of canning it and relying on the 6th Gen being the version that will deliver more in hope than promise?

 

Hehehe...speaking of bitching...there's a thread with 600+ posts (only a couple weeks old and still very active) over on one of the main Mustang sites about putting an LS motor into Fox-body Mustangs. It's pretty entertaining, and of course, its a bunch of drag racers. What's the main advantage to this sort of setup? An awesome motor (my opinion) in a featherweight chassis (that works well for drag racing).

Good stuff. And I kind of like reading some of the passionate...uh....discussions over here. Makes things interesting. If I get tired of it, I simply ignore it. Somehow, my blood pressure never rises, and I never feel the need to post one of those "mad" smilie faces.

Weird, huh?

One more relevant comment - Motortrend says a late 2011 availability date, so that would make the car a MY 2012. 2 years is still a long way off....

PS....very few of these threads get locked here. Which is a good thing, IMHO.

 

When I asked John Fitzpatrick about it, here is his reply.

Thoughts?

 

to me, that answers sounds like they dont want us to know that it is going to be built. look at it lke this: if they tell us they are going to build it in a year or 2, then there will be alot of people holding off buying an ss to buy the z28. they dont want that. they want you to buy a car now. so they wont tell us whether its on or off. its a way of pleasing everyone without letting anything out.

 

I agree. I also happen to think they don't want to reveal anything because they don't want any kind of backlash from the Feds. Developing a 550 HP, 14 MPG Camaro "using taxpayer money" isn't politically correct at all right now.

 

Or very smart.....when there's a better path to take....

 

A point that is lost in some people's minds is the fact that the GT500 employs extra chassis stiffening to handle the torque (and weight) of the 5.4L S/C engine. This is something that the base model does without.

The thing the 'Z/28' has going for it is the fact that the Camaro chassis is already quite rigid. Therefore, a solid base lends itself to less reinforcement and therefore less weight having to be applied to accommodate the supercharged engine.

Anyway, to whet the appetite for what a Z/28 could be like to drive, here's an interesting article from edmunds on a blown L99 Camaro developed by Vortech Engineering... Note, the kerb weight of the tested car is < 3900 lbs.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=156708