If you're Chevrolet you either have to beat it soundly on price (not likely)
-OR-
You have to hope that there are enough well-off enthusiasts out there who want Camaro and only Camaro even if the Mustang (and base Corvette?) is considerably quicker. Limited reach? Youbetcha.

 

I was born in 1965, so I am considered a Gen Xer, not a boomer. I'll probably be playing Aerosmith, Van Halen or Smashing Pumpkins, not Sonny and Cher. Otherwise, I am the demographic that would be purchasing this car.

 

volume leader? I thought I said low volume? Nevertheless...how would that be "the dumbest waste of resources" using off the shelf parts rather than creating new ones?

 

I am glad to see that GM is going forward with this car. I think there is room for it in the Camaro portfolio and I think there is a market for it. It also implies that GM is not sitting on its laurels with the early success of the new Camaro.

Now having said that, add me to the list of those unhappy about calling it a Z28. To me a Z28 should be a Camaro version of a Z06. This will not be a Z28!

Regardless of the status of this particular car, and in addition to this car: The Camaro needs to have an optional performance suspension package for the SS and the V6. Call it a Z51, 1LE, "track pack" what ever, it needs to happen. Make it relatively inexpensive and make it push the envenlope closer to the performance side of the handling -comfort compromise.

This will not solve all of the cars issues (i.e. weight, mass, interior). But better optimization of the stab bars, springs, and dampers will make it more fun to drive. Additional you can make up the handling advantage that the current mustang has.

 

I would consider that a "fixed" cost....since it would have to be done w/any engine. Unless you are referring to keeping LS3 w/out a HP bump?

For any changes being talked about they are going to have to design & produce an appropriate suspension package? Right? I don't think it's a simple as "tweaking" the SS suspension to get the performance Z284ever & Doug are wanting...it's going to need new hardware.

 

What shelf would the upgraded driveline come off from? How about all the engine cooling, wiring, plumbing, air-induction, EPA certification, crash testing, validation costs, etc...come off from??

The ONLY reason this mistake exists, is the some old tired, failed policy thinking of FOLLOWING Ford's lead that got the car cancelled the first time around......deja vu anyone?

 

Yeah, there are some guys like that. There are also some others who are really particular about how their car drives. I see and talk to both types. All of them have money to spend. My suspicion is that this "Z/28" will only get the money of the first group.

 

Yeah, I'm no spring chicken either, so I don't want to offend the elders in the crowd. I'm merely stating that there will be alot of non-enthusiasts with money to burn that will see the appeal in this car. Maybe guys that didn't appreciate them or couldn't have them when musclecars were new, but can do so now. Even if they don't know anything about cars...they may consider it. At that point, the curb weight is irrelevant.

I had my '69 at a drive-in recently and a 78 year old woman told me it was the nicest car she'd ever seen. I let her sit in it and she was pretty thrilled. Cars like mine, they transcend boundaries. The new Z/28 gives guys a shot at owning one without the work necessary to build one. Not everyone is a weekend warrior on the track, but people from all walks of life get a kick out of a car like that.

 

There's the truth, and there's the damn truth. What you said is the latter.

The 2nd group will buy M3's.

 

Ok, assume they went the other route with this z28 (the one doug suggested in post #53) and they stuck with the Ls3 and found a way to drop 100-150lbs of weight from the SS.

So how would a 2011, 3,7XXlb, 426hp z28 compete with this 3,7XX, 540hp GT500??

The z28 cannot compete with a car that weighs as much as a v6 camaro and that has the power of the CTSv assuming the GT500 drops the rumored 200lbs. I think the GT500 comes out on top either way on paper.

I personally don't think they'll have trouble selling whatever limited units they end up building.

 

Now, I can agree with that!

 

Not sure if any of you actually read this post, but tell me it wouldn't be a better use of resources at GM than the mistake they are pursuing?

It 'should' be cheaper to produce & sell and be more of a world class car than a Johnny come lately GT500 wannabe...

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=41

 

Unless GM can pull some sort of transcendental miracle with this car, I'm pretty much out of hope.

 

The "V-series" shelf....where are they going to come up w/all these "lightweight" parts?

All the certification stuff will have to be done in your scenario as well....they can't just "tweak it" and hope for the best...

How could they make the car significantly lighter w/out having to do crash testing etc..? In a new model these are "fixed" costs...

In 96 with the Vette...they were going to have to re-certify the LT1 for the 6 speed...it cost the same to certify the LT4...so they did it instead...same cost either way....

 

The dissatisfaction seems to be more of what they are calling this uber Camaro rather than it getting the green light for production. It's like the 2004 GTO all over again where a name means more than the car wearing it.

In one sense it's great for the Z/28 that GM values the name enough to not only bring it back but put it on the most powerful Camaro ever made. On the other hand it's not exactly true to original formula. But this is 2009 and look no further than the competition and the automotive market to see that it's ok to have a 2 ton pony car with over 500hp at or near Corvette pricing.

To me this is just some more automotive tomfoolery and fun before getting serious as CAFE looms large and for these Pony cars to succeed well into the next decade they will all need to get much more responsible.