Hmmmm....handling and modern Z28s.....isn't there someone that frequents this site that from time to time (who is held in very high regard, I might add) that likes to bring up that a 4th Gen Z28 SS could actually outlap a C5 around a certain race course?

Any chance of a 2010(+) Z28 (or SS) coming close to a C6 at the same venue?

Just a thought.

Oh...and there were indeed a lot of "nose-heavy pig "straight-line only" comments thrown at the GT500 when it came out. Heck, I was one of them (though I don't think it does very well in a straight line either). My my my how things change.

Just another thought.

 

Come on down. But those chemicals better be some good ****...

 

I'm sure it will be a great car. Very fast, for sure. But at 4100lbs...I just don't see how it's going to be that successful on the market.

Think about it....the Mustang is already outhandling the Camaro. The GT500 has been praised for it's handling since the 2010 update. It loses 200lbs next year. It's got 540hp. The Camaro will undoubtedly have the same engine as the CTS-V, so ~550hp. But it's going to be 300lbs heavier than the 2011 GT500 that it has as competition.

I just don't see how it's going to do very well in light of that. It's going to be a replay of the GT vs. SS reviews, except it won't have 100 more horsepower like the SS did vs. the GT.....

This makes me kind of sad. in 2002 I could have gotten a 3400lb 350hp Z/28 for around 25-26k. The next generation Z/28 gaining 700lbs is just...what in the hell...you know?

The GT500 is going to weigh the same as the V6 camaro next year...

I want camaro to be a huge success...it looks like it's going to be, and that's great! But for the next generation...I don't care if we lose 100hp. We need to go back to the weight levels of the 4th gen, and downsize the whole car.

 

Besides a few enthusiasts....how many people do you think can tell you the weight of their car? I don't know the weight of my car..I know it was considered a heavy car during it's time...but it is fast & fun to drive...I really could care less. BTW weight or handling hasn't stopped people from buying the SS....

If they build it...it will sell. I'm sure it will be a low volume car much like the GT500...

 

A heavy car can be made to have the same handling LIMITS as a light car. Corvettes are a lot heavier than Miatas and they can do much higher skidpad numbers due to their tires.

However, the feel of a heavy car cannot be disguised. It's not as pleasant to flick about in regular daily driving, in traffic, etc. People DO notice this. It hampers the "fun to drive" part of the drive.

The entire auto industry has gone out of control with upsizing and adding weight. There's articles out there now about how the compact segment vehicles (focus, mazda3, Imprezza, Civic, etc) are replacing the regular family sedan in terms of what the families are buying. Well no ****, because those vehicles are now the same size of the full size sedans from the 90s!

Every class of vehicle has been suffering the same thing. It is NOT just safety regs that have added weight. Everything has gotten bigger.

Going back to my Corvette/Miata example....a magazine recently did a "best drivers car" story...the Miata placed 3 places IN FRONT of the ZR1 Corvette.

If you look at the comments from people who are not already in the muscle-car crowd, it's quite clear that every type of enthusiast except for the ones who keep buying heavier and heavier muscle cars care about weight, because our cars....our mustangs and challengers and camaros, routinely get called overweight pigs by everybody else. If you're suggesting that these sporty vehicles should be built for people who simply don't care about weight, you're basically suggesting that they should be built for hairdressers and drag racers, and I'm sorry, but that road ends in the Camaro being killed again.

 

Where did this stuff about the GT500 losing 200lbs come from? The only thing that seems semi-reliable is that it will go to an aluminum block. So where are they pulling the other 150lbs from? Are they going all exotic materials? Is the current platform so strong they can cut out 100lbs of structure? Will it have no interior like the Cobra R? I don't believe that number at all unless they are changing platforms.

As far as the supercharged Camaro goes, if they put the magnetic shocks and throw in PTM, it could be a winner even if it is heavy. I agree that it won't be as "tossable" as a lighter car but the whole understeer thing can be fixed with correct suspension tuning.

 

Word is that the aluminum engine, just by itself, weighs more than 100 pounds less than the outgoing one. Suspension pieces which were steel are being replaced with some aluminum bits as well, and the car is being gone over...there were some really unnecessarily heavy parts in the GT500 when it was first made...basically steel versions of what was in the Ford GT. Lighter parts designed for the specific application are bound to help quite a bit. With the rest of the car's development now paid off, ford is investing in the R&D to replace those parts that can be lightened. 150lbs is likely. 200lbs is possible. Handling will improve quite a bit more than what would happen if they simply lightened it as well. Suspension bits are unsprung weight, and that counts a lot more than regular weight in terms of handling.

 

Just out of curiosity, to all the folks who don't like the current Z28 plan, IF the car were, say 3800 lbs, and everything else was the same including the 45-50k pricetag, would you buy one NEW?

 

I'd like to stay away from the whole hater thing. I'm not...I don't think Charlie is...we're all Camaro enthusiasts. I have no interest in participating in a conversation that has been framed that way.....

 

First things first....those of you who can't undersand the actual reasons for some of our dislike for calling this mistake a Z/28...and resort to teenage insults and name calling insults of "haters" etc....try reading comprehension 101.

If GM wants to **** away the $$ to build a competitor to a 2+ year old, over-priced, over-weight Ford, then just make sure it's not MY tax dollars being wasted.

That being said....are they gonna fix the steering/suspension?

I'd still prefer a NA engine.....and a better Blue to choose from and no dumb@$$ back-up sensors

 

I just think the Z/28 debate would end if they just called this LSA powered Camaro the ZL1 or something. Then there wouldn't be debate on Z/28 heritage. The last ZL1 was an expensive limited production drag racing brute, for those lucky enough to get one. This car will live up to that mantra well.

I too hope the car succeeds because I think it's only because of the success the Camaro has had already that gave the Z/28 the green light. This is all good for GM and for us enthusiasts because while the 5th Gen is a great car there is always room for improvement in the next generation.

 

Hairdressers & drag racers? WTF

I'm not suggesting they will be built...the article is...

You may not be interested in it...but there are many who are....

BTW anyone calling it an "overweight pig" I would venture to say is due to the physical size rather than the weight...because it is bigger than their Civic...

Aside from this message board...I have NEVER heard of someone not buying or not wanting to buy a car because of its curb weight.....maybe because it was sluggish (more engine related) but never weight..

 

I fixed it so that no one would be offended, which I'm suprised you were. Hater is a generic term for someone who doesnt like something, not an expression of genuine HATE, jeezz.

And I understand perfectly what the concerns are, I really do. But to sit here and think that decisions were consiously made by GM engineers that they would forgo any weight savings oportunities they had, given their budget, and instead going forth w/ a plan that was as unwinnable as you guys seem to think it is, is nothing more than a slap in the face to the men and women who made this car happen.

One thing I believe about the people that made this car, I think its the best they could do given the constraints of time and money. Am I happy about the weight? NO. Am I happy w/ the size? NO. Heck, I'm not even happy w/ the cost, but no one seems to fuss about that anymore. Do I like the interior? Didnt like it in the concept, don't like it in production. However I'm not going to be so stupid to think that they left ANYTHING on the table that they could have done differently in terms of size, weight, or cost (again, given the constraints of time and budget).

And Doug, I'm right w/ you on the last part. No matter how many times they tell me it wouldn't work, I'd rather have an LS7 than an LSA. I'd rather have a vintage Lemans blue over either of the 2 current offerings, and I don't need the do-dads either.

My point is, how many people here would let their wallets do the talking, assuming the biggest complaint was addressed?

 

Hairdressers don't care about their car, they just want something that looks nice. Drag racers just add more power and don't care how the car feels.

And sorry, but weight gets brought up a LOT. On every car forum, for every make and model. Weight is the biggest performance sapping factor in a vehicle. People care about it. End of story.

 

Although I actually like the interior (ok it could be better however I digress...) I can't disagree with anything else. To suggest the guys and gals behind this Camaro didn't do their best with the limitations they had is a slap in their faces.

I'm 100% in the same boat, however...

Can I accept the LSA in lieu of the LS7? Yes.
Can I accept one of the blues offered in lieu of Lemans blue? Yes.
Can I accept all the do-dads although I don't necessarily want them? Yes. (Even On-Star )
Can I accept them calling it Z/28 although it may not be the best historically accurate choice? Yes.

Just tell me when I can go to a Chevy dealer and order one.