I never claimed that it was. My point is that there was no possible way to reduce the weight of the Camaro unless GM made the dimensions smaller, made it a rounded bubble like the Genesis coupe, and negatively impacted its features/performance OR raised the price. I think the Camaro is the perfect size, and its bang for the buck (especially SS) is insane. Yet people will continue to ignore reality and bitch about the weight of the car. But I guess there's no convincing the people who think the car should be priced BELOW the adjusted price a 2002 4th gen when with all of the power/features/performance of the actual 5th gen. You can't fix stupid.

 

Huh?

More than a few on here (myself included) have said they would be willing to pay more for less.

Less mass. Less size. Less gimmicky features wholly unrelated to the driving experience.

Meanwhile, others (probably the overwhelming majority) have essentially said "No way. I want to drive a rolling family room / entertainment center. Besides, it says "Camaro" on the fender so we know it will rool awl."



You're right. You can't fix stupid and I've all but written off this site because of it.

 

got a source for that price? i cant find one

 

I can not understand the negativity here regarding the size. In fact, I think perhaps certain people should be banned for their constantly ruining threads with their incessant negativity. If some of you think the Camaro is massive compared to the Genesis. Lets take a look at the specs.

Length 190.4 Camaro vs 182.3
Height 54.2 Camaro vs. 54.3
Width 75.5 Camaro vs. 73.4

So, yeah the Camaro is longer and wider. But, how can you reduce these dimensions and keep the look that is so important to a car like the Camaro.
If you are going to get all shook up over about 8 inches in length, then maybe you should buy a Mini.
The Camaro is heavier also, but put a 6.2 V-8 in the Genesis and install the hardware to handle it, and the Genesis would gain quite a few pounds.

 

Here's a thought. Don't base it on a LARGE sedan architecture....

 

That attitude is exactly what I'm talking about.

Luckily that sentiment is not shared by the administrators. True they don't want to see incessant bickering and personal attacks but they will allow us to agree to disagree. It's the only thing that brings me back here in the face of the if-you-don't-agree-with-me-you-should-buy *insert car here*-and-be banned" crowd.



Just the look? That's the easy one. Ever hear of Smokey Yunick? Search for some info about his '66 Chevelle. If he could do that out of his garage in the '60s, I'm pretty sure GM design could fare even better.

If you don't / won't / can't search, Smokey shrunk every dimension of the car to its minimum. Parked by itself you couldn't tell the difference but it was smaller.

And faster.

 

I wonder how expensive the Camaro will end up costing in actual developement dollars.

I mean the whole reason Camaro is so large and heavy was the argument that it would be "cheaper" to base it on Zeta rather than a new architecture. Cheaper because the reported $1.2 billion which GM had already spent on Zeta could be spread across several hundred thousand Zeta sedans annually. And thus the business case for the Zeta Camaro was born. But those several hundred thousand sedans never materialized - and GM has already spent the reported $1.2 billion, with I guess the Camaro and G8 picking up the tab.

Funny, (funny weird, not funny ha-ha) how things turn out. I betcha it would have been cheaper to develop an all new, smaller architecture for the Camaro, than to have put it on the "cheaper" Zeta.

A smaller architecture which also might have been used to spin off a sedan or two - now that would have made GM look like "Johnny on the spot" right now.

 

Side rant:

My wife and I are enormously disgusted and frustrated with GM right now. We have owned nothing but GM products for the last 20 years. We are now both in the market for a new car and the largest automaker in the world has nothing we want.

I wanted a modern pony car. Didn't get it. So now I'm looking for a low mileage '04 Z06. My first used car in 17 years (since I was a teenager). Thought about a C6 Z06 but this car will be raced. The C5s are still beating the C6s in SCCA Super Stock so why bother paying an extra $40 - 50K?

The wife wants a few more features in her car than I do but nothing crazy. She wants a comfortable two door daily driver that is sporty, under $40K, nicely styled and fun to drive without being big.

GM has nothing we are interested in. We have a maxed out GM card rebate and nothing to spend it on.

I'm looking at used cars and she is looking at Nissans and Infinitis. Hyundai is looking to crowd GM on their own turf while GM looks at merging with Chrysler. Meanwhile probably hundreds of years worth of experience flee their sinking ship.

Unbelievable.....

/Side rant

 

Putting it on one that doesn't exist would have made more sense?

 

I've said it before and I will say it again..

They should have called it something else and let the camaro name stay dead.. so that you camaro "enthusiasts" could not have something to whine about..

BUT its a smart business case... put out a great car that sets ALL KINDS of standards.. but drop a well known name on it so that the die hards that will by anything with its name on it get drawn in as well to increase sales... on top of bringing in new buyers that could CARE LESS about a label (like namely me).

Makes sense to me

 

The same cannot be said for the widespread base that GM is marketing this car too. When you are running a business, the wants of 95%+ people trump those of "more than a few" on an enthusiast message board. And how much weight would we be able to save by removing gimmicks that aren't related to the driving experience? 150 lbs MAX?

 

We've been round and round about this in too many threads but here goes...


What if the money put towards a grossly underutilized Zeta and Camaro's version of Zeta was put towards a smaller platform and spread across multiple cars like what was actually supposed to happen (as mentioned by Charlie)?

Now we have a smaller / lighter starting point with the benefit of economies of scale.

What if whomever was in charge didn't have such a hard on for the GT500 and the Camaro was never engineered to withstand the 500+ hp engine that will now evidently never actually be seen in the car?

Now the car could be lighter (and probably cheaper).

What if that lighter / smaller / cheaper car could be optioned and offered in a proper "track" package called ohhh... Z28?
What if that lighter / smaller / cheaper car could still be optioned to the gills for the I-don't care-about-weight crowd and called ohhh... SS?
What if the lighter / smaller / cheaper car's V6 model gets head turning, eye opening fuel mileage numbers?

Isn't everybody happy now? Doesn't the car sell in even greater numbers?



Believe me, I don't think I'm smarter than everyone at GM. I'm sure someobody or multiple somebodies ran the same scenario. For whatever reason, it didn't happen.

 

See post #37.

 

Man why dont you get a job at GM and fix all of their problems. I am sure they would just love that seeing how smart you are.

 

Okay guys, no need to rehash the same old stuff and no need to get too far off topic.