This same people that will not buy the car because of the badge are the same type that would have not bought because of the B pillar, or because it didn't have t-tops, or it didn't have chrome trim under the shift ****, or a 10,000 watt sound system, or the gas cap behind the license plate, or factory wheelie bars, or a windshield banner that says "resurrection edition"...

In other words, if that group wouldn't buy the car because of the badge, they also wouldn't buy the car because of something else that wasn't perfect for them. Nothing like losing sight of the fact that we are getting the Camaro back.

If money is no object and safety is not a concern, there's lots of custom hot rod shops out there who can do the job. In order for it to sell well, it has to be affordable. The Camaro team tried but it wasn't possible to happen that way. I don't like it but it won't stop me from buying the car.

I am willing to wait and see how it turns out, and like everything about this car, I have high hopes. Also like every thing about this car, I haven't been let down yet and I don't expect to this time either.

 

Bring on the t-tops

Having the b-pillar back basically kills the entire argument that was given as to why there would be no t-tops.

 

That statment really doesn't sit right with me. I am starting to notice that a lot of people are going to buy this car because it is a Camaro. What's the sense? You wouldn't buy on of the four door, four banger novas that were built right before their demise. Look at the latest GTOs, they are a badge, not what people had in mind of a GTO and for that people either love them or hate them and the sales show it.

Sure we are getting the camaro back, that's nice. It's not enough reason to make payments for the next 3 to 5 years though. If it's not what we want we won't buy it, plain and simple.

 

I have a question for those of you that think the inclusion of b-pillars is no big deal. (This is not for the pro t-top crowd.) Have you every owned or spent a significant amount of time driving a 1st gen Camaro or Firebird? If you have, you would understand the significance of not having a b-pillar with rear quarter windows that roll down. The ability to roll down all four windows and cruise around on a hot summer’s day is significant for 1st gen hardtop owners. It also significantly alters the look by including a b-pillar. While I’ll agree if the intent was never to have the rear quarter windows roll down on the next Camaro, then I would have less of an issue with this announcement. However, why develop a car with so much 1st gen influence and neglect a key feature that separates the 1st gen Camaros from all other generations? The additional weight and structural integrity argument is b.s. We are talking about a cost issue here and by taking out this one element GM is probably saving millions in development and production costs. (Most of that being in development and engineering.)

Now for those of you celebrating because you think this means a return of the t-top. First, if GM is trying to save cost and weight by eliminating the rear quarter windows, why on earth would they add more cost and weight by adding t-tops? It doesn’t make sense from a marketing standpoint. Sure it is now more feasible, but it is definitely going come at a price. Even those that don’t want t-tops will suffer because in order to reduce production costs, they will need to engineer t-tops into the design of all the coupes to make it practical. Besides t-tops look crappy on this Camaro. There I said it. I have t-tops on my 4th gen, and I think they also looked good on the late 2nd gens and the 3rd gens. However on the 5th gen they look stupid. Sure that’s my opinion, but if this Camaro is going to be successful they need to go easy on all the extras that will end up making it look like it just starred in an episode of Pimp My Ride. Besides, t-tops should be buried in the past along with the mullet and Whitesnake. Some of you claim to be worried about the image portrayed on Camaro owners, and then in the same breath you cry for t-tops. Unbelievable!

 

My statement wasn't a blanket statement. We are not talking about a 4-door, 4-cylinder Camaro here. If we were, none of us would bother. Fundamentally, the next Camaro will be without a doubt what a Camaro should be and that is why I will buy it. I am not saying that people can't have reasons for not buying it, but people are already saying they won't buy it because it won't be perfect for them in every single way, right down to the last detail and they haven't even seen the car yet. People are nitpicking the car to death and they don't even know if they actually have a reason to nitpick. It happens every time info is put out there, and in many cases, when info is not out there but people jump to conclusions.

I think people should wait until more info, data and images come out before they start posting here how they won't be buying it (which I don't even understand fully where the benefit to that is). I am not happy with the B-pillar and I don't expect anyone else to be as well but I also know that there is no such thing as a perfect vehicle for me or anyone else out there.

 

Between my Father and I we have owned over 12 GM Hardtops from the 60's and 70's 2 and 4 door. I agree it is cool and nice looking but the truth is as a everyday driver seldom were all four window were down.

We seldom rolled em all down as we just had to roll them up again and this was in the day of no AC or power windows.

In this day and age 90% of these cars will only lower a window for the bank or fast food drive through.


Today in a show car or play car the hard top first gen see it's rear windows down more because it is seldom left alone.

To prove my point how many here have or have seen first gens with the window glass all scatched up? It is always the front windows as the rears seldom went down.

As for weight and cost they go hand in hand. to save weight you have to go to aluminum or magnisium to replace the heavier steel. It flat cost more to save weight. Don't think for a moment if they could do this at a target weight at a target cost with solid platform rigidity that the boys at Chevy would not have done it.

As for t tops they are just out of the picture right now as few if anyone has them anymore. Unsure it the crash standards or the platform flex has run them off but I would not hold my breath for them.

Today you had just better take what you can get as the next goof we elect President or Senator may just legislate the cars with or without B pillars from being built.

 

So GM isn't going to give us anything for taking away the T-top from this car? Unless they got something planned it sounds more and more like this car is might as well be a mustang, or any other 2 door coupe. So much for standing out from the crowd...

 

What doesn't sit right with me are people who nitpick, generalize, and find the most insignificant reasons not to buy the Camaro as if GM's going to read it and say "Holy S*it!!! Mr so-and-so won't buy the Camaro if we have a B-pillar.... or have the wrong badging.... or have the chrome 1/4 inch lower than they want!!..... Quick!!! Go to the Board and get that extra 5, 10, or 50 million dollars so we can sell Mr So-and-so a $20-30K Camaro so we can make that $1-2 thousand dollar profit!....Don't worry about the rest of the buyers who could care less who'll have to pay for Mr So-and-so's demand!"

Uh..... no. Doesn't work that way Hot Rod.

If that isn't ridiculous enough, then when someone here points out that this is infact insignificant nitpicking, the inevitable response is "Well, then perhaps we shouldn't complain and let GM bring out a 4 cylinder, front wheel drive, sedan and slap the Camaro name on it..." or hide behind that "High Standards" cop out.

Reality check guys. The Camaro isn't being designed personnaly for you. It's being designed to sell to 100,000 or so people worldwide. It's being made to pass federal crash standards. It's being made to pass all safety standards. As they say in the movie "Fight Club".... you aren't a special flower.

If the Camaro being gone for 7 years, the fact that people have been fighting to get Camaro back for at least a decade (over half of the automotive careers of some people involved), can't appriciate the scheme that Welburn, Lutz, and Wagoner had to devise to get the General Motors Board of Directors on board to approve funding and production, and all the other things that had to happen to get the Camaro back, and all you can say is "If it doesn't have a B-pillar GM dropped the ball", or "If GM calls it a 2010 instead of a 2009, the sky is going to fall", or If it isn't presisely the way I want it, Camaro is going to have to work hard to earn my money", then perhaps you'd be better served buying a used car or a car from a competitor.

I know what those guys went through to bring back Camaro. I also know that it has to pass all safety standards on the books today, those that will be in effect in 2010, AND and be adaptable to conform with all projected standards right on through till at least 2020. Sure, the lack of B-pillars would have been nice. But so was that windshield on the 4th gen.... you know.... the same one that made the car impossible to sell past September 1st 2002 due to new passenger protection standards??

There's alot of things I would have liked on the 5th gen, but won't be a part because of cost or safety. But just because the absence of those items disagrees with what I'd PREFER, that doesn't make the car any less a Camaro, and doesn't make me any less likely to buy it simply because of those compromises.

And as far as the badging....if you won't buy the Camaro because you don't like the way the Camaro lettering is, then you probally aren't serious about the car in the 1st place.

Either that, or you're an only child.

 

Yes. A very welcome new image.

 

Same thing I posted over on carmaro5.com..

Yea I don't like it BUT if this is a deal breaker for you.. get ready to be very disappointed and start shopping something else.. This wont be the only change you will have to accept. I have accepted it and the comming changes.. as long as its a 2 door v8 with close to the same styling that is on the concept..

 

Hey, I AM an only child, and I'm quite happy just to be getting the Camaro back, thank you very much!!!



I realize that comment was not personal!!

It's true though ... I realize there are several "groups" of people around here. Some are happy to have a "Camaro" back. Some want the "perfect" Camaro. Some want a revised 1st-gen. Some want a continuation of the 4th-gen. Some want an evolution of all 1st-4th gens.

No B-pillar? Meh :blah:.

No roll-down rear windows? Hello, LESS WEIGHT AND PARTS TO FAIL!!!!!

 

Any chance we could get some focus fgoup peeps or maybe Scott to buzz by this thread and drop a removable foof (T-top / targa) winky on us? That would just make my day...

 

No need as this car will not have T tops!

I would hope Scott might pop in and point out the reason that the industry as a whole has passed on T tops for a good while now. I sure crash standards and the point there already is a convertable available are two of the leading reasons.

I have T tops now and can say I love them but they really do compromise the platform strength. There is little substitute for roof structure stiffness to make a strong platform.

Heck even the convertibles can't have there doors open on a rack since they sag so much. A t top is better but not much as it still pails in torsional stiffness.

 

Also said in Fight Club..."the things you own end up owning you"...

Anyone has the right to bitch about anything they want, many people would in fact be owned by their purchase...they should at least be happy with it.

 

I can't say whether or not the glass will be flush, but if it is, it would have to follow a window treatment similar to what was found on the edges of the 4th gen hatch glass, being the blacked out glass hiding the structure underneath. It could very well be a black, or body color bar, ala Mustang, but given the look of the concept, and their desire to keep the production car as true to that as possible, I would say body color is out.

At the worst, I would expect a smallish black bar similar to this...