Originally Posted by supr_bikr_99

-Engine integrated into Camaro; LS3/L99 - Auto $30 million 3.6DI $20 million
-Platforms: Zeta, if shared with other planned GM NA vehicles $100 million
-Engineering Development Handling: Lead class. $20 million
-Interior appointments: Materials and electric data interface to for a 21st Century $20 million
-Safety, 5-star crash ratings: $20 million
Airbags: Match competitors in airbag safety $5 million
-Time to market: 2010 MY $10 million (Released in early 2009 - Extended 2010 MY run)
-Transmissions V6/V8: 6-speed auto $20 million 6-speed manual $20 million
-Materials and platform development: Class leading structural rigidity: $20 million
-Curb weight V8: Under 3800 lbs $40 million
-Curb weight V6: Under 3600 $40 million
*Special Model Development: Z/28 (LS7*) highly upgraded suspension and weight loss $30 million

Total Cost: $395 Million

(*Based on currently available engine)

That was tougher than I thought! I'm guessing on cost of my version of the Z/28. I made my own option because that's my opinion on what the Z/28 should be - a lighter weight, N/A high-powered race car for the street. The majority of the money would go into the suspension development and weight loss, with the remainder going towards whatever costs would be associated with putting the LS7 into the Camaro. I know the LS7 will be phased out at some point, but if it were gone in the next year or so, an equivalent replacement would be used.

*Edit* - Ok, I revised my budget because I had second thoughts about the weight and feel like that is more along the lines of how I would have built the Camaro. I would argue that the weight loss is essential to get Camaro where it needs to be.

Originally Posted by 99SilverSS

You've traded safety but added the 1LE and still have a potent Z/28. Your Camaro is an enthusiast dream. Could still be some curb weight objections but the even the V6 drivers will enjoy the focus on performance.

On time for development but over budget by 1.4% GM will just take it out of your paycheck!

Originally Posted by Z284ever

If I were Chief Engineer, I'd need to urgently and forcefully have a talk with the VLE. I'd tell him that this car is going to be way over our weight targets. Several Hundred pounds over. If it's going to cost an additional $60M , (OP's numbers), to get this product back in line, I'd stress to the VLE that we NEED to have a meeting with the Vice Chairman of Product and the VP for Global Program Management and inform them of the situation. And make the case, that if we don't spend this additional $60 million, we essentially don't have a product.

That's what I would do.....

Originally Posted by 99SilverSS

In this thread you are Zora Arkus-Duntov. You have full control of the Camaros development like a Corvette cheif engineer.... within budget contraints. Even Zora would have had trouble getting more money in GM's current economic situation.
Sounds like you'll need to drop content from the interior, cheaper transmissions and/or the Z/28 to keep the curb weight down. If that is your top goal w/o compromise.

Originally Posted by 99SilverSS

The good news is your Camaro will challenge the GTR and ZR1 at the Ring and take down Z06's at the strip. The Z/28 will be a real monster!

The bad news is you’re over budget by $15 million and the GM NA strategy board wants to know your sales projections.
Considering you have left out a V6 option and some enthusiasts will be wondering where the 6-speed option is. Your sales projections may may be on the low side.
Also with the big power to weight ratio and only a 4-star crash rating and airbags only equal to the competition the car will be Mustang priced but insurance premiums will likely be severe.

Originally Posted by polo3433

Engine (V8) LS3/L99 - Auto $30 million
Engine (V6) 3.6DI $20 million
Platform - Zeta, if shared with other planned GM NA vehicles $100 million
Engineering Development - Lead class. $20 million
Interior appointments - Materials and electric data interface to for a 21st Century. $20 million
Safety - 5-star crash ratings: $20 million
Time to market - 2010 MY $10 million
Airbags - Class leading $10 million
Transmissions - 6-speed auto $20 million, 6-speed manual $20 million
Materials and platform development - Class leading structural rigidity: $20 million
Curb weight V8 - Under 4K lbs $20 million
Curb weight V6 - Under 3800 lbs $15 million
Special Model Development - Z/28 (LSA) $25 million


Total Cost $350


I did not need to change the weight because my competitor’s weight is around 4,000 lbs. With high crash and safety ratings should edge out my competition in the safety segment. The power train will be superior to my competition and will have a special edition Z/28 to keep the enthusiast happy. The total money I use was $350 mil, but I would do more cuts on the V6 version such as no manual available, single exhaust.

I would gear the V6 more for people who just like the body style of the car and not what is under the hood. This way I can sell the V6 cheaper around $19,000. Since the DI was the only available V6 engine to choose from I would went with a non DI V6 that’s gets around 260hp.

Originally Posted by CLEAN

Ok, I tried desparately to make it work w/ Sigma, just to be able to bring it to market sooner, but the other items were just too compromised. So here it is...

ZETA Camaro

L76/2.0 Turbo 4cyl 20M/30M
Zeta platform 100M
Class leading handling 20M
Class leading electronics 20M
5* Crash rating 20M
Class average air bags 5M
MY2010 10M
6 speed Auto/Manual 20M/20M
Class leading structural integrity 20M
V8 under 3800 lbs (3700 avg) 40M
LSA based Z/28 25M
_______________________________
Total Expenses 350M

I went with the L76 because it satisfied the requirements of class leading power, and did so at less cost than the LS3/L99. Also it would be marketable to emphasize that it could run on regular gas and has AFM. This engine complys w/ the edict of class leading fuel economy.

I went w/ the turbo 4 because it still give class leading hp over the boat anchor in the Mustang, not to mention that you don't have to pay the weight reduction penalty you incur w/ the use of V8 and V6 engines. It DESTROYS the competition in NON V8 engine fuel economy. This engine complys w/ the edict of class leading fuel economy.


Zeta because it's the only platform that works if you want to have quality, if not class leading components in other areas of the car.

Class leading handling, a fixed requirement, per management.

Class leading electronics, a fixed requirement, per management.

5* crash rating. Anything less, would be uncivilized.

Class average airbags, this was the one compromize I made to get the LSA Z/28. I could have left the class leading bags in place, and gone w/ the LS3 Z, but the shortage of hp, even coupled w/ the lighter weight car, was not enough to overcome the power/weight advantage of the GT500, which while not a requirement of management (to have class leading performance) what self respecting GM engineer would build a car knowing it was 2nd best going in? Not this one!

Time to market of MY2010 is the same timeframe GM used, however I would market the car as a MY2009. When Joe Public hears the Camaro is a MY2010, he moans and groans that it's still a year away. I would call it a 2009 which would put it much closer to reach in the minds of the public. After all, Dodge rolled out its Challenger just not long ago, and called it a 2008. The Camaro will be out in Feb, less than 12 months later, but it's 2 model years removed?!?

Transmission choices of 6M/6A is class leading, anything less would be crucified by the enthusiasts and the media.

Structural integrity and materials are class leading, my goal was to build the BEST Pony/Muscle car out there. Mission accomplished.

V8 under 3800 lbs. I guestimated this to mean an average of 3700 lbs. It was this or the 1LE suspension. I determined that the money was better spent on a weight loss that would benefit ALL V8 drivers, instead of the small fraction that would spring for the 1LE. Those 1LE folks will probably build their own suspension anyway. That's my business case for GMPP .

LSA based Z/28. Class leading power+ lighter weight than the competition=WIN.

Where's my golden parachute?

Originally Posted by polo3433

Engine (V8) LS3/L99 - Auto $30 million
Engine (V6) 3.6DI $20 million
Platform - Zeta, if shared with other planned GM NA vehicles $100 million
Engineering Development - Lead class. $20 million
Interior appointments - Materials and electric data interface to for a 21st Century. $20 million
Safety - 5-star crash ratings: $20 million
Time to market - 2010 MY $10 million
Airbags - Class leading $10 million
Transmissions - 6-speed auto $20 million, 6-speed manual $20 million
Materials and platform development - Class leading structural rigidity: $20 million
Curb weight V8 - Under 4K lbs $20 million
Curb weight V6 - Under 3800 lbs $15 million
Special Model Development - Z/28 (LSA) $25 million


Total Cost $350


I did not need to change the weight because my competitor’s weight is around 4,000 lbs. With high crash and safety ratings should edge out my competition in the safety segment. The power train will be superior to my competition and will have a special edition Z/28 to keep the enthusiast happy. The total money I use was $350 mil, but I would do more cuts on the V6 version such as no manual available, single exhaust.

I would gear the V6 more for people who just like the body style of the car and not what is under the hood. This way I can sell the V6 cheaper around $19,000. Since the DI was the only available V6 engine to choose from I would went with a non DI V6 that’s gets around 260hp.

Originally Posted by 99SilverSS

No mention of V6/base model curb weight development money spent so that may be an area where the car will swell and if it has a Turbo 2.0L it will need curb weight in check.
Par for the class airbags will raise some eyebrows for the safety conscious buyers expecting a 2010 vehicle to cocoon them in airbags so they feel safe putting their daughter or son behind the wheel.

Originally Posted by Z284ever

If I were Chief Engineer, I'd need to urgently and forcefully have a talk with the VLE. I'd tell him that this car is going to be way over our weight targets. Several Hundred pounds over. If it's going to cost an additional $60M , (OP's numbers), to get this product back in line, I'd stress to the VLE that we NEED to have a meeting with the Vice Chairman of Product and the VP for Global Program Management and inform them of the situation. And make the case, that if we don't spend this additional $60 million, we essentially don't have a product.

That's what I would do.....

Originally Posted by Fbodfather

Physician! Heal thy myopia!!!!

Originally Posted by CLEAN

No V6 mentioned because it is deemed unnecessary . I assumed a weight savings in using the 4cyl over the known wt of the V6, and deemed it an acceptable number w/out the need for weight savings (3500 lbs). I figured anyone in the market for a non-V8 Camaro is into it for value/economy, but still wants something fun to drive. The turbo 4 delivers better power to weight than the Challenger SE and Mustang 4.0, and kills them both on fuel economy.

I don't know that the airbag issue would be that big a deal if there was nothing out there that was better. But even so, I can give you class leading airbags if you're willing to trade down to an LS3 Z/28 that will be slower than the competition.

The interesting thing I found out in researching this, is that the LS3/L99 is not necessary to defeat the competition in power to weight. The L76 beats the Challenger R/T and Mustang GT, and does so while getting class leading fuel economy.
G8 GT 15/24
figure since my V8 Camaro will be 300 lbs lighter, that should add 1 or 2 mpgs to those numbers, so maybe 16/25 or 17/26.
Challenger R/T 16/23
Mustang GT 15/23