This more directed to GM in general than to FbodyFather, and concerns maintenance.

Scott - Please do whatever you can to make it easier to service the next Camaro. I mean specifically changing the plugs. I just did this yet again on my 02 SS, and it is an absolute nightmare on a completely stock V8 Camaro. I shouldn't have to lose blood to get it done, and to be perfectly honest, when the new camaro comes out I'm going to take a long look at what the engineers did for us in terms of maintenance. If they screw it up again I'll have to think long and hard before commiting to blowing more saturdays on something this basic.

Sorry for the rant, but this has been on my nerves for YEARS now. It seems as though the engineers take some sort of sick pleasure in making the simplest things total pains in the butt.

Or am I alone on this?

Dave C.

 

You're definitely not alone on this. It seems like every vehicle has at least one thing that should be really simple but turns out to be a bloody knuckle festival.

 

We do not get pleasure out of making vehicles a pain to work on. As a matter of fact, a lot of engineers are car enthusiasts themselves. I have cursed at my Camaro a number of times, but shortly thereafter reminded myself that vehicle design is not so simple.

The reality is that vehicle components are designed to be assembled onto the vehicle in methods that are: safe to the workers, resistant to mistakes that can sacrifice quality and can be done in as little time as possible (time is money).

IMO, Many people have unrealisitc expectations from automotive suppliers / corporations. Take your spark plug access compaint for example. By design, the spark plugs do not need to be changed until 100k miles. Most vehicle service is conducted by a trained technician at either a dealership or private shop, because very few people perform their own maintenance. So why should an engineer go through the process of designing an engine bay just so a very small group of car enthusiasts can perform a task in 10 minutes instead of 30 minutes that takes place every 100k miles? Do not get me wrong, I would love easy access to everything under the hood of my car. But, from a design standpoint (assembly and fitment) things just do not always work out the way we would like them to.

 

I'm sitting here now trying to come up with a reasonable response, but I'm at a loss. We all understand that assemblies are driven by cost and speed/ease of assembly, but there is no plausible excuse for making maintenance items this difficult to perform, and hiding behind the "recommended service intervals" and the assumption that "most" owners can just take it to a "trained service tech" is insulting at best. Take a poll. Ask how many owners of Camaro's (NOT caddy's or SUV's or almost any other make out there) change their own plugs and do their own maintenance, and I'd bet you'll be suprised. I don't know of anyone who owns one of these cars who doesn't do their own work.

The truth is that GM doesn't care about this facet anymore, and makes it blatantly obvious with things like this. When I was changing those plugs today, it was apparent that all it would have taken was a small change to the shape of the AC/heater core box to give just a hair more room would have solved this problem. It would have cost no more money to manufacture, nor more time to assemble yet it wasn't thought about, and THAT is the crux of the problem. There's no justifying being lazy in the design.

 

i do agree with you, but man these companies just gotta do what they gotta do to get their product out there... supply and demand ya know, sometimes things like this go unnoticed or not thought of until the car is done

 

And I bet if you take a poll of all Camaro owners (not just enthusiasts and participants on this site), I think you'll be surprised that most do not change their own spark plugs or do other work. The average Camaro owner is pretty much like the average owner of most vehicles, taking it in for service when needed. And while I agree that all new vehicles could be designed to make servicing easier for those of us that like to do it ourselves, I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen on any vehicle from any manufacturer. It certainly was easier to work on my 1960 Impala where you could almost get inside the engine compartment and still close the hood, I didn't realize then how easy it was to work on my first few cars.
Clyde

 

Are you aware that it is so difficult to change that particular plug that some dealer service technicians and private shop employees simply don't change that plug?

 

I bet your right.

 

The only thing the 4th gen will share with the 5th gen is the name. The engine wont be tucked so far back in the 5th gen.

As will all cars, there's always something that will be a PIA. I dont expect the 5th gen's level of PIAness () to be near that of the 4th gen.

 

I've always found newer cars to be more of a PIA to work on than older ones.

We did headers on my friend's 2nd gen in about 2 hrs. About 4 hours on a 3rd gen. 10 hrs on a 4th gen.

 

From my personal experience, 90% of the issue with working on the 4th gen is the space that the motor sits in. If you had an extra 2 ~ 3 " on the inner fenders You could get your hands and tools in there to get at things.

Since you don't have that area, you're constantly approaching small tasks with hacked tools, getting stuff on the top of engine from the bottom of the car, or attacking it from ODD angles...

 

Most of the time the issue is the headers we put in... The headers need to have good plug access.. On my pops corvette.. working the car is very simple (z06 2002).

My plea to gm is: do not make razor sharp EVERYTHING around the engine bay... that is my only plea...

Even though its rather simple to work on the corvette.. if you do not wear gloves.. you end up CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT everywhere on your hands and arms. But i dare you try to change plugs on a 5.4L ford motor from an excursion...

I'd rather have the engine tuck down beneath something if it puts the engine 2" farther back and i get a better weight distribution.

You do not change spark plugs every week. And a simple oil and filter change is that... Simple...

In the end... I still get your point, but i also get the production line standpoint also.

 

That response is ABSOLOUTELY mind boggling! Not only does your logic affect a "small group of car enthusiasts" It affects EVERY single 4th gen Camaro buyers cost of ownership. Be it their added time or another techs. It amounts to higher maintence cost because engineering forethought was not considered in the design. Not only are you paying your Dealer tech MORE to change your freaking plugs, you are sittin in their waitting room LONGER to pay more. As you said, time is money! This is NOT a small issue and hits at a major failure of the 4th gen.

 

It's not worth adding time and cost to everything else just so one task can be shortened, especially if that task is generally done ONCE in the lifetime of the car.

 

um who said anything about ONE task? Ever tried to change O2 sensors on a V6? which Ive done 3 times trying to get my engine light to go out. What about plug wires (which I did once and had other techs do after twice over time) or a mess or other things? We can argue T Tops and B pillars and personal preference all day but now youre really talking about a reputation killer and people act like theres been no lesson learned.