Nobody has figured out how to disable that illegal black box in the 4th gens yet.

That is the first I have heard of that, but if so I would imagine you could clear it out, or keep a spare ecm.

The common sense approach is that you can do whatever you desire to your car as long as you keep the "factory" emmissions. One thing modern computer controls has taught us is that performance can be had along with emissions requirements.

Put a 426 Hemi Cuda against a Z06 vette. nuff said. I would venture to say most of us don't want to pollute the air any more than we already may be.

OBD III is an greater issue regarding personal freedom. Onstar is bad enough. You are correct on the black box.

 

Another reason can be for pipe size as well as the relatively more restrictive stock cats. The GTO midpipes for example neck down to ~1.5" pipe into the stock cats. I'd bet that the mustang is the same way. And because high flow cat mid pipes are so much more than off road pipes, is it any wonder which sells better.

 

Its just a sugar-pill mod. Your right that it doesnt do anything to a near stock car. But to look at a converter off of a car one would casually think them to be restrictive.

 

There was a a big stink awhile ago where Subaru was voiding the warranties of people who took their WRX racing. Info was stored on the computer, and if you took your car in for any type of engine or drivetrain warranty work, they would plug in, find out how you used your car, and wouldn't do the warranty work. Ford's SVT (to their credit) went public and said they don't do that themselves, but no one else has.

As far as OBD 3, what's the difference if it's broadcast via OnStar or stored in your onboard computer. It's going to be discovered.

And believe it or not, you DO NOT have the personal freedom to do anything you want to a vehicle on public roads. It's governed by NHTSA, EPA, & both federal and state DOTs.

The absolute worst OBD 3 (and OBD 2) can do is void your warranty. The "Black Box", however, has the potential to get your liscense pulled, sued by the other party in an accident, and/or thrown in jail and fined....or all the above!

Again, OBD 3 is much ado about nothing.

Correct.

 

i don’t understand by looking at rpms and mph and other reading they could say you were racing. also i don’t understand how some one could look at a computer several months later and say you didn’t on the street and not on the track.


i would wonder how legal it would be also to record some ones actions especially since most people don’t know. in most states its crime to record people with out knowing it and is inadmissible in court.

 

I do what my neighbor calls "hot rodding" around town, I accellerate...all the time, but do not disobey the speed limit or put others in danger, does that mean I'll get in trouble now for how I drive a new car ? Or is the information not constantly transmitted?

 

Personally, I think a lot of this is urban legend.

OBII only records specific fault codes and does not log data.

The "black boxes: so many talk about only record the last 10 seconds of data before a deployment of the airbags.

OBIII will obviously make "tuning" even harder....but we'll figure it out.

Just stop trying to get warranty work for obvious modifications and / or abuse of the car.

 

Just investigated. It was Misubishi, and it was done by cross checking the person's name with racing events. Subaru was giving away free SCCA memberships, but voided the warranty if your car broke while participating. Got alot of flak over that.

But related to the same thing:




And SVT:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...73255260025912

But it does tell where the problem is. For instance, if the code for catalytic converter failure shows up, and they see evidence that it was tampered with or removed, replaced, or modified, they have the right to void the entire engine warranty.

The exception is in that if the manufacturer does not provide a replacement part for a defect at no charge, they can't void any part of the warranty if you use an aftermarket part. In short, they can't void a warranty for using an aftermarket air or oil filter, clutch, tires, or oil for instance. But rip out your converter, air pump, or reflash the ECU or ad a performance chip before the end of the warranty, and something happens to your engine, you're on your own.

You're right that the OBD and ECU (emissions control unit for everyone else) don't actually record exactly what you do, or how you drive. But if I'm not mistaken, the engine management computer has the potential to.


http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt

True. Again, it records all the information about how you were driving, and stores it. It's not going to be long before police & insurence companies have access to it. We're very close to having it admissible in court in fatal accidents... unless it's already happened.... and from there, it's a small step having it admissable across the board.

That's why I say OBD 3 is a non issue.

Or better yet, don't modify unless it passes state & federal regs, and wait till the warranty's done.

 

Bottom line is that most racers KNOW that they are on their own if they take their car out on the track....as it should be.

As far as HPDE's (non-competitive non-timed track days)...most are considered a "driving school" and your car is "usually" covered by insurance...individual experience may differ.

Imagine what cars would cost if manufacturer's were forced to cover these costs.

People do a lot of stupid stuff to cars and then expect the mfr's to fix it for free.

How many 10 bolt rears were taken to the dealer for warranty replacement...with tire residue on the inner fenderwells... straight from the local street night drags? Plenty. Hell, I drove my '94Z at numerous tracks, drag & road courses and never broke it.

Most of us know or have heard of guys putting stock parts back on cars so they could get abused parts fixed under warranty.

It's a two way street...a very expensive one.

 

Actually OBD-II is required to have the ability to take a snapshot of operating conditions that existed when a fault occured.

I have never actually seen any of these snapshots though and don't really know how to access them but supposedly they are there.


We will be able to work around OBDIII just as we did with OBDII. People were all up in arms back in the early 90s when it was coming out but everything worked out fine. And really the only difference I see with OBDIII versus II is it has the ability to notify authorities when your car fails. The main concern is people don't get emissions problems fixed fast enough.

Me personally I don't like to pollute so I like to keep my car running correctly. But that's just me.

 

they are, and just as the name inplies, it is a snapshot of some operating conditions seen at the time a fault code is set

rpm, o2 sensor readings, timing retard, ect. , as well as MPH and throttle position are some of the things recorded, but only for the split second the fault is recorded

in theory, it is to assist in recreating the conditions of the fault, but this doesn't help all the time

 

Not for me. The only possible deal killer for me, is the french gov't owning a piece of the General.

 

I do recall the WRX situation as you state. As far as reading the ecm, that is why I said keep a spare.

"And believe it or not, you DO NOT have the personal freedom to do anything you want to a vehicle on public roads. It's governed by NHTSA, EPA, & both federal and state DOTs. "

I totally disagree with this, but that is a discussion for another time and place.


I would never have onstar so its moot.

lol...

 

GM is making on-star standard on ALL of their "non-fleet" vehicles.

 

yea but you have to activate it