JonCR96Z

I'm not an engineer on the Camaro project, they can figure it out if they want.

Chris 96 WS6

Its one thing to take the bumper support and door guards out for a trailered track car, but its pretty stupid for a street car. Just add HP and keep the safety equipment...accomplishes the same thing.

Z284ever

Obviously.

JonCR96Z

Good one. Hey didn't you say somewhere that you weren't gonna buy it if its heavy. Thats the difference here, I'm gonna buy it regardless. If it is heavy then, mine is just gonna go on a diet. My concern is that I gonna be riding down the road, get next to some old mustang or something that somebody bought for next to nothing, and its just gonna walk away. Oh, but you're gonna say well I'll still have a badass new Camaro. Guess what, there's some ****ers out there who are always gonna hate. This is something I put up with now in my CTS-V, but atleast its still a 4door cadillac. And it's not that I just have something to prove. I hate to see other people giving Camaros and such a bad name. Whats good for me is good for GM. The better there cars look and perform the better they will do. Which means more money for R&D for the next Camaro or whatever.

A little less offensive than you other posts. Adding more power doesn't do the exact same thing as having less weight. Sure it makes it faster but light and powerful does so much more than heavy and more powerful. Again, if you don't want to do it then don't. What do you say about all the people who ride motorcycles, there's no crash standards in place there. They must be stupid to ride such an unsafe vehicle, right?

Z284ever

The point is, you can't simply remove 5 star crashworthiness. It's baked in, it's part of the structure.


BTW, how do you like your V?

JonCR96Z

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I orginally posted just to counter to part of the Q&A where he was talking about how he would love to make it light, but it has to be top notch in crash worthiness. So I was saying that it is fine and dandy to make a car class leading in safety(as that will help sell cars), just let the people who don't buy cars for the safety have the car they want too. Honestly, I said more as a joke, but thats not to say that I won't take the stuff off anyway.

I guess I will just have to cut weight other places. I wonder how much the seat belts will weigh.


The V, uh, well, its heavy. The LS6 is a beast. I'll be able to make over 400rwhp with just bolt ons. And that's just awesome. I'm currently at 372rwhp and 363rwtq, and the stock manifolds and cats are pretty restricive from what I hear. I'm kind of scared to drive it too hard though as they have weak rearends and there's not a replacement as of yet. That's another thing that worries me about the Camaro. Just not as tough as the old LT1 (even though it's not that tough).

Buttercup

I also translated that as "yep, this IS going to be damn heavy like everyone has speculated".

You can make all the excuses for a pig that you want. A pony car should not be a heavy car. I fully understand that it may be inevitable due to rules, laws, and regulations. There is only so much engineering can do. The government's going to do a damn fine job of making sure that in the future we all drive identical boxes for transportation. The only struggle left at that point will be between NHTSA and EPA while the rest of us wallow in the crap.

Regardless. If every engineer involved understands and is passionate about this car and it still comes in too heavy, you may as well call it something else.

People on this board want to bash those of us who say anything negative about the up and coming Camaro. I'd say those of us who speak out loudly to criticize any dire possibilities are the ones who really are the true Camaro fans. I don't want a Camaro out for the sake of having a car named Camaro. I only want to see a true Camaro. If it really is impossible to make a pony car than call it something else.

Than again maybe not only is the pony car dead but the market for it as well. These days most people don't know jack about automobiles and image is the number one priority. Times change, looks are all that matters.

Bob Cosby

Ding ding. Ding ding ding. Ding ding.

Also, agree with most of stuff that "Buttercup" said above. Of course, you're screwed now dude. LOL.

Bob

Buttercup

I've been saying all this for a while, I'm just not all that active in the 5th gen section (or any section these days ). It's good to read for information but not much for constructive discussion. If you're critical of anything you're just not a fan and you are against Camaro's triumphant return That's when it's not a retro vs. modern debate or Z28 vs. SS

I'm actually a bit shocked at Scott's comments on weight. He came off as almost abrasive and condescending. No matter what his following (though well earned) is here or anywhere, that's insulting. I can only assume how hard it is to take incessant criticism from us "lowly" online enthusiasts when it comes to something you've put your heart and soul into but it's no excuse to belittle something that IS important for some people who are very passionate about it. I sure hope GM doesn't disparage its engineers like it does its enthusiast fan base.

I hope the engineers that care about this car are just as sick about hearing the weight issue as Scott is. If not, someone needs to preach even harder to that choir.

I hope saying that doesn't ruin my chances for working at GM

FS3800

this whole complaining about the possibility that the Camaro will be a pig is rediculous..

you heard Scott.. they are doing everything in their power to make it as light as they can with respect to the target price..

complaining that it'll be heavy or saying you wont buy it if it's a pig isn't gonna change anything.. so i just don't see the point.

leave the horse alone already.. it's been long dead for a while

eagleknight97

Yeah, no ****, this is ridiculous. Do any of you actually think GM is saying right now, "hey, lets make this Camaro heavy so that its MPG sucks and we **** off a bunch of enthusiasts!"? Honestly, WTF, of course they are going to try to make this car as light as possible, but it all boils down to the all mighty dollar! If they were going to sell this car above 40k, then heck yeah, we would prolly have a nice svelte Camaro on our hands. However, that wouldnt fly with anyone on here prolly. We need a Camaro that bases out at around 22k or whatever the Mustang is at in 2009. For it to be around that price and for it to be even approved to be sold in the Unites States of America, theres no way its going to be around 3400lbs. Yeah, it sucks, but its the truth, aint no gettin around it. I understand there are hardcore guys out there that want a lightweight ready to go drag/track car and for them, weight is a huge issue, however, even for a majority of the ENTHUSIAST population, weight isnt THAT big a deal and we will deal with a heavy car because the government and money makes us. If the Camaro is too heavy for you when it comes out, chances are the Challenger will be way to heavy and the Mustang will be too heavy also, therefore you are limiting yourself to older used cars for the most part. No problem there, its just not a new car.

Bob Cosby

Whether it is Rediculous (sic) or not from your point of view, it is important to some of us. And if it is brought up by the man himself in the link from the original post. If he's going to bring it up, why is it "rediculous" for me or anybody else to comment on it?

And yes, I heard Scott. I have no doubt Scott means what he says. That doesn't change my perception that the car will be significantly heavier than I would like - for whatever reason.

I hope I'm wrong.
Bob

PS....One could argue that we aren't beating a "dead" horse, as it hasn't even been born yet.

Buttercup

It isn't complaining, threatening, bitching, or griping. It is pleading, hoping, critically emphasizing an extremely important aspect of a performance car that we love. Being a "fat pig" is a possibility so it's not at all ridiculous, in fact it's far from ridiculous if you want Camaro to be and remain a pony car.

If this horse has died than Camaro may as well have died with it. What I heard from Scott wasn't at all encouraging. The impression I get that the majority of this message board is more preoccupied with how it looks and nothing of its actual specifications scares me even more.

I don't care if I am one of the few beating a dead horse, I'll turn this SOB into dogfood not because I think it makes a damn bit of difference but because that's all I'm afforded. The rest of you are pissing in the same pot as me so keep up with the group hugs

Plague

Something about spilling coffee in one's lap rings a bell...

Bob Cosby

It goes without saying that the new Challenger will be a pig and a half. I'm not optimistic about future Mustangs either.

Oh well.