yes please, enlighten us... the only reason i broght up the solstice, is because the solstice, was a concept, nothing more... it was just a dream, a dream that had no ambition to be created... they did not consider any of the thigns that are thought about when creating a car...

where as the camaro, is doing things backwards, its getting a platform, its getting a chassy, its getting an engine, its getting everything, before! it is ever shown in the concept stage...
so... the only reason why i say 3 years is too long for this vehicle, is because its got 1/2 the work done already... the 3 years started a year and a half ago when the 05 mustang was a hit... when people started realizing there was a coupe market again... the 3 years doesnt start in january like it did for the solstice... remember this vehicle is and will be a go, the styling may change, but the vehicle is a go... and this is Before the concept is shown...

the solstice, was not a go... it was... lets see what kinda crazy car you guys can dream up...

 

The pictures weren't of a car. It was a big model. That is why it had supports under the middle of it.

 

yea its clay

 

I don't think Camaro should be compared to Solstice. Camaro needs to be a real and sustainable program. Solstice was a 20,000 unit per year gleam in Bob Lutz's eye. And he rammed it through. A luxury Camaro won't have.

There are no secret Camaro mules running around Area 51 folks. GM is creating the bones of Camaro as we speak. Don't be disappointed if it's not right around the corner.

 

Being laid off right now myself, I just had to laugh...but oh, it hurts...
I'm not an expert on how GM does things, but it seems to me if you take 3+ years to do something...the rest of the world will have moved on...
I just hope the project evolves as they go to stay "current"...and they can maintain the desire and enthusiasm we're seeing lately.

 

Keep this in mind regarding the timing....say for example the engine is "already done." Well, in a lot of cases that doesn't mean much. Often times that type of development is done in parallel to the other parts of the car. If you remove the engine from the picture, it will only make a difference if it was the "bottleneck" in development. Consider a hypothetical situation where the entire car was completed except something like the door panels. Well, if it took a year to design and tool those parts and then another year to test the car with those parts - the entire car would still take that long!

Thus, the more relevant question is "when did they start?" not "what bits are completed?"

 

If they started in January, it could probably be an early 2010 model - and that is assuming it is already green-lighted. To make 2009, they would have to complete production design, tool the production parts, and validate it in two years. If they just have a clay right now, it means that the sheet metal design still has a lot of work to go, and it takes a little over a year to make a big stamping die.

-Geoff

 

Whitehawk, I think you need to elaborate for Newbie. He wants specifics.......... as in timeframes............. to get the car into production. He does not understand the processes involved.............. the amount of tooling thats needed............ the amount of testing that is needed.............. and the amount of certifications that are needed............... on a completely new car.

Having a platform that you are basing the Camaro's platform on means nothing in regards to the Camaro. Having an engine you are going to use means nothing, as it will be in a different vehicle. All of the certifications and testing needs to be done on this specific vehicle. Nothing done before counts. This all takes time. If the Camaro was as far along as you "suspect," then people would have to be seeing heavily disguised mules already.

You remind me of my 3-year-old................ one of his favorite phrases is "it's hard to wait."

 

Thats what I'm thinking as well. Theres still a ton of work to do on this car to make it a sellable product, even if all the engineering were done, which it sounds like it isnt.

Plus if Charlie is right about the GTO-sized comment, I'd like to wait for a smaller Camaro anyway.

 

But if this car is a Zeta car, question is this...
Have we already seen Zeta test mules? Has there been testing already done? There are plenty of VE test mules running around, and last time I checked, Zeta and VE were very close, if not the same thing. I could be wrong since there are so many stories, and none of them line up.
GM could have done its testing, and all it needs to do is work on a coupe. Hell, there could have been several GTO's running around with Zeta under pinnings and no one would be the wiser.

 

I could care less when the car came out... i'm simply stating... the work has already started... months ago if not years ago, I remember about 4-5 months ago, many of the more respected members were establishing a timefram that the car was 24 months away... seeing that its been 4-5 months since those estimates i'm thinking around 20 more months... okay besides rumors...

I'm assuming that the resurection of the camaro was originally started to be pondored right after Chris Hortons camaro got so much attention. GM was to realize there might have still been a rwd coupe segment... then when the 05 mustang hit the autoshow and received nothing but attention... The Ford mustang 05 was a concept in January of 03... it hit showrooms late 04 correct?

I know GM is lazy about product development but why would you figure they'd show us a car that wasnt close to development... why would they care about the car being leaked if they were going to show it 3 years away from production?

my point isnt that to make a vehicle not much is involved... my point is, most of it is already done. Look at the GMT900 they were to be debuted in autoshows, after the vehicles were in showrooms...they should hit early january, when the autoshow is mid january... soo, why should it be dramatically different for the camaro?

sure lots of testing is required... sure lots of this is required... but GM is getting better about what is seen and what isnt... GM is cracking down on future development and who gets to see it... and only to show it when its ready to be shown

 

The GMT900's were not shown, because of their importance to GM, and to maintain a competitive edge. Also, to show them too early would have pretty much eliminated the sales of the current trucks.................... which GM desperately needs.

The Camaro does not share this problem, as there is no current car............ and the car will not have 1-2 MILLION sales per year (based on the different varients).

Also, the 24 months, that you are talking about, you took out of context. Those in the know said that if GM slammed the car through............. if all the planets were aligned.............. and if everything was completely streamlined, with unlimited funding............. the absolute fastest you could possibly see it, would be in 24 months.

If you see GM doing this for the Camaro, then the wishful thinking thing comes into play again. I certainly do not see them doing this.

BTW, Ford worked on the new Mustang for almost 5 years total.

 

If there are mules running around, you won't see them in this hemisphere any time soon.

 

I don't usually chime in when a thread turns out the way this one has. However, I wanted to point out that the person who started this thread merely asked of all those who truly know how auto production (from inception to showroom) worked, what kind of timeframe we're looking at. He asked the same questions going through the minds of allot of us "less informed" lower beings. I think we all can’t wait ‘till our beloved 5th gen is available.

There is absolutely no reason to be condescending, mean or haughty. I have never understood why people have to "pounce" on others for not understanding something.

This is a great forum; we don't have to resort to bad behavior.

 

Aside from all the engineering and production questions that are really just speculation here, keep in mind something else: GM learned a lesson from the way-early introductions of the SSR and Solstice concepts. They were both huge hits on the show car circuit but because of the leadtimes involved, by the time people could actually buy one they were yesterday's news. As pointed out above, it kinda had to be that way because they weren't serious production candidates until after their rave reviews. But with Camaro, GM knows when it'll be ready for production. I doubt they'll want to make the same mistake of giving their customers a 40-month case of blueballs.