Maybe it's something intangible? Just a feeling they get? I know I have similar feelings towards Firehawks and the upcoming Camaro. Same feeling I had about the Solstice until I owned one.

 

I thought I would add my thoughts here about GM build quality and longevity. Over the last twenty some years I've had five Blazers and Jimmys, every one of them except the newest one has gone well over 200,000 miles without any major repairs (the newest one only has 97,000 miles on it at this time). One of the Blazers is in my driveway with 237,000 miles on the original engine, you can start it up right now without even a hint of "blue smoke", try that with a Mopar that can't keep piston rings in it. My favorite Jimmy had to be replaced a couple of years ago with 219,000 miles on the original engine/tranny because some nimrod pulled out in front of my wife from a side street onto the highway and she t-boned the other car, totaled the nimrods "ricer" and unfortunately also totaled my Jimmy. I currently have 3 GM vehicles in my driveway and all have given me excellent service with only routine maintainence (particularly oil/filter changes like clockwork), paint is still excellent on all, and the finish/fit/tightness is still excellent with little or nothing in the way of squeaks, rattles, etc. I bought my first GM vehicle in 1965 (a used Corvair) when I was 16 years old and have owned/driven almost exclusively GM since then, the quality has gone up some with each newer one that I bought, the last 15 years or so the quality in my opinion is equal to or better than most others including all of the low to mid price range imports and some of the upper price range imports. Will I buy GM again (and more specifically a 2009/10 Camaro) based on my experience with their build quality and longevity? You bet, I'm looking forward to that new Camaro being in my driveway.
Clyde

 

Our '91 Astro Van is at 189,000 miles.

 

Here's the bottom line..... when I buy the Camaro, I hope for both mine and your (i.e. GM in it's entirety) sake that the car is well built. Because at the very first sight of problems - that is, if I have a major recall, or I have a rear rear diff whine problem (ask a few CTS-V owners about their rear diffs), or the headliner is not tucked in all the way on one side (like my Mom's brand new Lucerne she just bought Thursday), I will get it fixed and then promptly sell the car swearing off American cars for good.

I know I'm not the only one with that sentiment.

I guess I feel that way because I read a while back that Bob Lutz wants the Camaro to appeal to more than just typical muscle car people. He wants it to appeal to people looking for a well balanced touring coupe as well. Honestly, I'm hoping that's the case with it. That I can compare it to, say, a BMW 3 series coupe. I mean, equipped right the Camaro could certainly enter 3 series price range, no? Not to offend anyone, but maybe the new Camaro can be built with a bit more sophistocation than the stereotyped Camaro owner of the 80's who listened to Def Leppard and wore a mullet. In order to do that, to move into a higher class, there will be more scrutiny and higher expectations from those customers.


I'm waiting for the day someone, and I don't care if its JDP or CR or whoever, comes out with a scoring system for people who've kept their cars 7 or 8 years and have well over 100k miles on them. The rest of those surveys don't mean anything to me because, as I said, its no big deal to make a car that will run great for 4 or 5 years and 60k or 70k miles. Driven lightly, any car made today will do that. But I've yet to be convinced that American cars can be as much if not more reliable than Japanese cars when you hit 7, 8, or more years and into the 150k and up mileage - CONSISTENTLY! Yes, I know people here and there who have good luck with an American car for that long. But it just seems to be the norm that every 10 year old Japanese car on the road is running great. Rusty, but running great with no major repairs.

Is it too much to ask GM to produce a car with American muscle and looks, German handling, and Japanese reliability?

 

I'm going to take my Pyromania CD with me on my test drive and play Rock of Ages full blast with the windows down. Gunter glieben glauchen globen.

 

Well as long as GM doesn't keep having camshafts snapping, engines sludging, suspensions failing, and includes a second and sixth gear in the 6 speed autos I'll be pretty happy. Dammit there goes my dronelexia, for some reason I keep on switching GM and Toyota. I need to get that checked out.

 

 

Fastball, see my reply above. I have a long history of experience with GM vehicles with over 215,000 miles on them. Not a "once in a while" fluke, but consistent history of longevity with build quality/lack of problems over the last twenty plus years. Currently I have a 95 Chevy 20 series van with 128,883 miles, 88 Blazer with 279,138 miles, 99 Blazer with 91,972 miles. I lost an 95 Jimmy (totaled in wreck) a couple of years ago with 217,000 miles on it, sold an 86 Blazer with 241,000 miles on it, sold an 85 Chevy pickup with 211,000 miles on it. I could take you farther back with some of the GM cars I've owned over the years, but I think you get my point. Oh, and in case you think my Blazers/Jimmys don't get hard use, I make 15-20 trips a year from VA to the Outer Banks of NC where they get plenty of 4wd time on the beaches down there.
Clyde

 

I honestly doubt such a thing will ever happen (the keeping track of a 6,7,8+ year old car). Because, while some may keep a car that long, the majority of the population don't. My father tends to get a new car every 3 or 4 years. My mother used to get one every 4 or 5 years, but did keep her last car for 9 (and she would like to get a new one now but is enjoying no payment. I may have to work on her to keep her away from Toyota though since she said she was thinking of getting one as her next vehicle). My grandfather even gets a new car every 2 or 3 years. He even had one he only kept 6 months.

I myself have never owned a car with over 100,000. And only kept one car for 5 years. All others have been in 2 or 3 (and under 35,000 miles).

Again, I'm not saying that a lot of people don't keep there car for many years, but I don't believe MOST of the population do. Most people that have a 6, 7, 8+ year old car are those purchasing used, not brand new.

 

scott is sadly right on the money here. we have/had a number of GM vehicles with over 100K and fastball's comments about GM not being able to build cars that can get over 100K bug me because i know from experience that his comment is incorrect.

my 92 Roadmaster (built at a time when a lot of people said GM quality had slipped, but i say otherwise) has 132K on it currently. i drive it every day. it gets regular maintenance and has never given me trouble. the auto climate control works. the power lumbar front seats work. the trunk pull-down works. hell, even the power antenna works. everything works on that car and i've never had to fix any of it. it all worked when i bought it with 102K miles.

our 78 Chevy C10 pickup had 219K miles on it when we sold it back to the guy that sold it to us because he missed the truck so much. that thing was a workhorse. it didn't have any fancy bells and whistles to break, but the drivetrain and everything it did have never gave us a bit of trouble. it ran strong. we used it to tow our racecar and the guy who bought it back used it to tow a boat from New Orleans to MAINE! and the truck made that trip like a champ.

i have also had previous GM vehicles that have had 100-200K with no problems. friends of mine have GM vehicles with over 100, over 200, over 30, and over 600K (that's right 600K). and they all are dependable and reliable vehicles. the 600+K truck was a truck we used at a car dealership i used to work at and it was a 98 Silverado that we used to trailer cars to and from other dealerships on trade. they sent it to auction with 660K because they replaced it with a newer Silverado, but nothing was wrong with the truck. (now they did have to rebuild the tranny twice because it was used for towing constantly) but nothing was wrong with that truck.

GM builds not only the most dependable, longest lasting trucks on the road, but they do the same for their cars. nowadays, most people don't seem to keep their cars very long (stupid disposable society) but i'm in the same camp as fastball because i drive my cars well past the 100K mark. i plan to daily drive that roadmaster until the darn wheels fall off (which will probably never happen).

it's very frustrating to hear people make claims that detroit iron is not dependable or reliable, especially as Scott said, when they have owned a former domestic car that was good to them. the only thing i can figure is that the marketing the foreign carmakers have done has successfully brainwashed many people and GM needs to create their own marketing attack to combat such BS.

okay, sorry i'm rambling...

 

i take it you haven't heard about the problems toyota's been having?

 

Everyone knows someone with crazy miles on just about every car out there. Big deal. The fact of the matter is that people leave a car manufacturer based on a bad experience with that companies product. If the replacement company delivers a better experience than the previous manufacturer, then you can forget about that customer ever coming back anytime soon. If over time, people start moving from the domestics to Toyota (and yes, I say Toyota specifically because that is who is becoming the king fish), then you cannot just simply discount the move as good marketing or spin doctoring on Toyota's part. Yes, consumers can think for themselves. Like it or not, Toyota is providing the consumer with something that they want and are willing to spend their hard earned money on.

GM has to become the company that people are willing to go to when they have bad experiences with other makes. I don't wish to elaborate because that would take up an hour of your time reading my post but in order for GM to be this company, it means they must build first rate cars which the average consumer will speak highly of, build cars which are more affordable than the competitions competing product and most of all, educate the public on the products which GM have for sale. For example, I believe GM leads all manufacturers in fuel consumption (something at the top of car buyers minds these days) on a product to product comparison but current GM ads are very poor in getting that message out. GM's current marketing is still focused on creating ads showing how fun it is to drive a GM vehicle. Fun is not top priority when people are shopping for a daily vehicle that they will rely on.

 

REALLY? I don't see that many GM ads that tout fun, these days. Their campaign for the 100k warranty didn't say anything about fun.....their Saturn campaign hasn't said anything about fun......I just don't see it.....

And while I agree that people use their experiences, I'd also point out that price and value play a big role as well. I had a couple of Nissans as my first cars and I loved 'em. But when I went to buy new, I looked at what I got at Nissan versus what I got at GM and I had to go GM. It's been two cars since then - a '94 Grand Am GT and my '99 Trans Am WS6 and I won't look at an import unless it really hits the wow factor - and none do for me. My wife wanted a 350z because there was no Camaro or Trans Am - and she'd wanted a 280z in the old days....and while the 350z is a fun car and a good car - there's still no "wow" like my Trans Am. Btw, she and I agree, my Trans Am's a daily driver (year round) with 160k+ miles on it and it's the best car either she or I have ever owned.

 

Every 10 year old Japanese car on the road running great with no major repairs . You must not live in Florida. 100 degree days and humidity that makes the air thick enough to cut with a knife, plus living in a metropolitan area, takes its toll on cars, whether American, European, or Asian. I saw that your car was a 2000 model with 171k so obviously you do alot of highway driving. Your cars should get to 200k, your current one is only 7 years and highway mileage isnt nearly as brutal as city stop and go.

As far as Hondas being superior, tell that to my g/f who just had her 2001 CR-V with 90k miles in the shop with a 700 dollar repair bill. A car is as reliable as you take care of it regardless of its origin. And how she drives, that statement holds very true

I think its been shown that quality is no longer in anyone's favor. In the '80's - early '90's I wouldve agreed but not anymore. If you want a Camaro when it comes out, you have the 5 yr/100k warranty to put your mind at ease if your worried about it. No auto manufacturer is gonna guarentee you parts are gonna last over 100k miles because everyone drives different and not everyone takes care of their cars so stuff breaks.

And I think it would seem that this thread has officially been derailed off the original topic

 

The big difference I have seen in the import and domestic products is this:


People swear by the dependibility of thier Honda or Toyota and that it has 1XX,XXX miles on it. Well, that is great. But they are usually within 5 years of the purchase date. Find one that is 10 years old and then check it's condition. It is usually in pretty bad shape. My mother-in-law who lives with us has a 97 Honda Accord that she bought brand new. It only has 70K miles on it and it is falling apart. It has all of it's maintenance done and is very well kept up with. But after about 6 years it started needing components replaced. 2 Radiators, alternator, AC system, CV joints etc. Body parts started having issues as the clips for the bumper covers started giving way etc.

I just see it as misleading that the foreign cars "last so long". They are long in tooth for miles, but short in age.

People seem to get mileage and age confused when they talk about cars lasting. They are two totally seperate subjects.