SLP involvement
12-12-2005 | 06:41 PM
#61
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,214
From: City of Champions, MA, USA
Re: SLP involvement
I dont see why they couldnt just boost the 96 Z28's hp and then say that the SS was the new mid-level model. That would have helped so much with my ford friends since all i ever hear was how chevy couldnt get the Camaro right so SLP had to do it. They didnt make the RS top over the SS so z28 could have been boosted up and SS taken over the "old" Z28's slot. Nothing is wrong with 1 years car having more hp than the previous years.
12-12-2005 | 07:37 PM
#62
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Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by super83Z
That would have helped so much with my ford friends since all i ever hear was how chevy couldnt get the Camaro right so SLP had to do it.
Second of all, that is a pretty ignorant statement.
Third, and most importantly...ask your buddies if they ever heard the names Roush or Saleen.
That's what it took in most cases to beat a Z28 OR an SS back in 1996. 
12-12-2005 | 07:46 PM
#63
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,255
From: new jersey
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by JasonD
First of all, you need better friends.
Second of all, that is a pretty ignorant statement.
Third, and most importantly...ask your buddies if they ever heard the names Roush or Saleen. That's what it took in most cases to beat a Z28 OR an SS back in 1996.
Second of all, that is a pretty ignorant statement.
Third, and most importantly...ask your buddies if they ever heard the names Roush or Saleen.
That's what it took in most cases to beat a Z28 OR an SS back in 1996. 
super83Z=
12-12-2005 | 08:00 PM
#64
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,801
From: South Bend , IN
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by JasonD
First of all, you need better friends.
Second of all, that is a pretty ignorant statement.
Third, and most importantly...ask your buddies if they ever heard the names Roush or Saleen. That's what it took in most cases to beat a Z28 OR an SS back in 1996.
Second of all, that is a pretty ignorant statement.
Third, and most importantly...ask your buddies if they ever heard the names Roush or Saleen.
That's what it took in most cases to beat a Z28 OR an SS back in 1996. 
12-12-2005 | 09:14 PM
#65
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 318
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by super83Z
I dont see why they couldnt just boost the 96 Z28's hp and then say that the SS was the new mid-level model. That would have helped so much with my ford friends since all i ever hear was how chevy couldnt get the Camaro right so SLP had to do it. They didnt make the RS top over the SS so z28 could have been boosted up and SS taken over the "old" Z28's slot. Nothing is wrong with 1 years car having more hp than the previous years.
Ford couldn't get their high tech, dual overhead overhead cam V8 to compete with a simple pushrod engine. They had to stick a supercharger on top of it in order to compete with the LS1.
12-12-2005 | 09:33 PM
#66
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,255
From: new jersey
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by greg_nate
It depends on how you look at it...
Ford couldn't get their high tech, dual overhead overhead cam V8 to compete with a simple pushrod engine. They had to stick a supercharger on top of it in order to compete with the LS1.
Ford couldn't get their high tech, dual overhead overhead cam V8 to compete with a simple pushrod engine. They had to stick a supercharger on top of it in order to compete with the LS1.
and they waited til the Camaro finished production to bring out thier "big gun".
12-12-2005 | 10:22 PM
#67
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,375
From: Sarasota FL
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by CLEAN
Hi Scott, just using the above example (the doomsday scenario I mean), how was it that the IROC displaced the Z28 in the mid 80's to the point where Z28 completely went away for a few years, only to reappear a few years later as the NEW top model Camaro again. I was there, and I don't remember being overly confused as to what was the top Camaro. Not trying to antagonize you, just trying to understand the differences between the 2 scenarios.
By the end of '87, the IROC was selling so well GM figured it would stop offering 2 "top" Camaros. IROC was originally a package on top of a normal Z28. So for '88, Z28 and LT were axed. The Sport Coupe got the silver gfx, front and rear facias, spoiler, 15" alloys, gague cluster and a few smaller things from the Z28 anyway. The Z28 lived on as the RPO for the IROC model (RPO Z28, IIRC).
At the end of the '89 CY, Chevy lost the rights to the IROC name to Dodge. Therefore, all '90 MY production ended late December of '89, with the '91 MY commencing in early '90. Because Chevy could not use the IROC name anymore, they had no choice but to bring back the Z28 nameplate.
In reality, IROC really is the top Camaro
Maybe we should call me IROCman!!!
12-12-2005 | 10:55 PM
#69
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by super83Z
I dont see why they couldnt just boost the 96 Z28's hp and then say that the SS was the new mid-level model. That would have helped so much with my ford friends since all i ever hear was how chevy couldnt get the Camaro right so SLP had to do it. They didnt make the RS top over the SS so z28 could have been boosted up and SS taken over the "old" Z28's slot. Nothing is wrong with 1 years car having more hp than the previous years.
In 1996, MT was saying the new restyled 1998 Z/28 would get the 330 hp GEN III V8 and a new midlevel RS would get a 5.3.
12-12-2005 | 11:37 PM
#70
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,301
From: Detroit, MI USA
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by CLEAN
Hi Scott, just using the above example (the doomsday scenario I mean), how was it that the IROC displaced the Z28 in the mid 80's to the point where Z28 completely went away for a few years, only to reappear a few years later as the NEW top model Camaro again. I was there, and I don't remember being overly confused as to what was the top Camaro. Not trying to antagonize you, just trying to understand the differences between the 2 scenarios.
But there's also the issue that the nameplate came back at model change-over. The Camaro SS did not come out at model changeover.
Interestingly, it's been over 15 years since we built an IROC, but the 'brand awareness' of the IROC name still gives the average consumer the image of Camaro........even tho they used Chryslers and Firebirds after Chevy dropped the sponsorship. Lotsa brand equity there....but the sponsorship involves stupid amounts of money.
12-12-2005 | 11:44 PM
#71
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,301
From: Detroit, MI USA
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by demonspeed
I'm trying tp be considerate here... so don't go flaming me about my opinion - constructive criticism is welcomed...
I always looked at it as comparing to the Mustang...
You look at the GT and IMO, compare it to the Z28. (I'm talking 99-04 here)... The GT came with 17" wheels, different rear bumper, different hood, obviously it got the 4.6, suspension, etc, over a V6 coupe. What did the Z28 get? An engine... oh, and dinky (ugly) wheels, no distinction, and vacuum cleaner tips.
Let's look at the Cobra (which we'll compare to the SS). HUGE improvments over the GT. Big power gains from an entirely different engine (especially 03/04), different rear, tranny (03/04 anyway), better seats, MUCH better suspension and brakes, etc. The SS got a hood, wing, wheels, "better" exhaust... sure you could get optional stuff, but at the very least, most of it should have come standard on the SS - and besides the suspension, it wasn't going to make a difference.
Not to mention that SVT has a HUGE supporting roll in the enjoyment of the driving experience. Sure, SLP has a gathering at Englishtown or whatever, but the SVTOA has (what seems) so much more to offer, including track days (not just drag racing), a message board that didn't go to poo, newsletter, etc...
How often does a stock Cobra have problems keeping away from a stock GT? Taking out driver error... Never.
How often does a stock SS have problems keeping away from a stock Z28? Well... you know the answer.
IMO, after having both a SS and Z28, the SS seemed like an afterthought. I think the SS failed to the competition (besides brute power - which the Z28 had the SAME amount of power) in delivering a UNIQUE driving experience.
I always looked at it as comparing to the Mustang...
You look at the GT and IMO, compare it to the Z28. (I'm talking 99-04 here)... The GT came with 17" wheels, different rear bumper, different hood, obviously it got the 4.6, suspension, etc, over a V6 coupe. What did the Z28 get? An engine... oh, and dinky (ugly) wheels, no distinction, and vacuum cleaner tips.
Let's look at the Cobra (which we'll compare to the SS). HUGE improvments over the GT. Big power gains from an entirely different engine (especially 03/04), different rear, tranny (03/04 anyway), better seats, MUCH better suspension and brakes, etc. The SS got a hood, wing, wheels, "better" exhaust... sure you could get optional stuff, but at the very least, most of it should have come standard on the SS - and besides the suspension, it wasn't going to make a difference.
Not to mention that SVT has a HUGE supporting roll in the enjoyment of the driving experience. Sure, SLP has a gathering at Englishtown or whatever, but the SVTOA has (what seems) so much more to offer, including track days (not just drag racing), a message board that didn't go to poo, newsletter, etc...
How often does a stock Cobra have problems keeping away from a stock GT? Taking out driver error... Never.
How often does a stock SS have problems keeping away from a stock Z28? Well... you know the answer.
IMO, after having both a SS and Z28, the SS seemed like an afterthought. I think the SS failed to the competition (besides brute power - which the Z28 had the SAME amount of power) in delivering a UNIQUE driving experience.
Now......I had to think about this for a while...but we did a Camaro Video for dealers and showrooms.....and we filmed it at what was Bragg-Smith in Nevada...(now Spring Mountain Motorsports Park) (great track, by the way....we still rent it to do chassis development work....)
Anyway.....we ran, as I recall 10 laps with a Mustang GT, a Z28 and an SS...same driver...same conditions...same day...same everything........
The Z28 averaged, as I recall a 4 second lead over the Mustang GT. The SS, on the other hand, had a 12 second........that's HUGE....advantage over the Mustang GT.
The SS had chassis tuning to perform better on the track. It rides more harshly than the Z....but the tradeoff is in better handling.
By the way......little known fact that we never were allowed to talk about. A 1999 Camaro SS with 1LE suspension was marginally faster on a road course than a 1999 C5 Corvette with Z51 suspension. Our own engineers would prove it at Milford and in Nevada.
12-12-2005 | 11:49 PM
#72
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,255
From: new jersey
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by Red Planet
By the way......little known fact that we never were allowed to talk about. A 1999 Camaro SS with 1LE suspension was marginally faster on a road course than a 1999 C5 Corvette with Z51 suspension. Our own engineers would prove it at Milford and in Nevada.
interesting. what was Team Corvettes opinion of that?
12-12-2005 | 11:57 PM
#74
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by Red Planet
By the way......little known fact that we never were allowed to talk about. A 1999 Camaro SS with 1LE suspension was marginally faster on a road course than a 1999 C5 Corvette with Z51 suspension. Our own engineers would prove it at Milford and in Nevada.
12-13-2005 | 12:04 AM
#75
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,301
From: Detroit, MI USA
Re: SLP involvement
Originally Posted by turbo96z28
interesting. what was Team Corvettes opinion of that?
I used to beam when I'd go to Spring Mountain.......we provided them with 10 new Corvettes and 10 new Camaro SSs..... all cars were stock...the SSs had stock suspension, not 1LE (the reason? we felt that you should be able to go out and buy one the next day........most dealers would not stock a 1LE)
So.......I'd watch some "Brand X" (hint....not Ford, not GM) owners, for instance, get out of the SS.......and grill us as to what mods we'd done to the cars. "You mean this $28,000 Chevy can perform that good on a track???" (after passing cars costing well over twice as much...or more)........ Yup!