turbo96z28

hate to seem like i'm tapping you for info..... .....but did you have any direct influence on what was doen to the SSs in the LS1 years?

JasonD

I went to Spring Mountain (when it was known by another name) a few years ago, and I was the only one driving a Camaro SS. The others drove C5's and were purebred Corvette owners. I was also the youngest there. Needless to say, I was the odd man out, and they made it known that they didn't think I was quite in their league.

I didn't care, they sure had a hard time keeping up with me.

detltu

I always wanted to go to B-S and plan on it when I get my 5th gen. Especially if Spring mountain gets some Camaros again (or the new Z06).

RP
Did you guys provide the cars or did B-S buy them at reduced cost or what?

Fbodfather

yes.

DrewSG

What competition did the SS have?

ChrisL

They came out with the Z06.



Could you imagine the outcry in Corvette nation if word got out a "lowly" Camaro was faster around a race course?

Those of you old enough may also remember the outcry from Vette owners when the Buick turbo V6 engines were around kicking C4 ***?

Jason E

Maybe that should tell Chevy something

I've had customers tell me "that's a nice IROC you own!" as I've gotten out of my car at the dealership. People see a picture of me with my car on my desk here at the bank, and say "is that your IROC?" The brand equity in that name for the Camaro...is it as high as Z28?

One must ponder that, seeing as how my car IS a Z28, and to the unwashed my car IS an IROC People have probably called my Z28 an IROC more than calling it a Z28!

FWIW, I am all for bringing the IROC back as a special package Something tells me most will disagree, and something tells me I'm biased...and that's because I AM biased

turbo,
Shut up...I'm working on it A 350 IROC is still my dream Camaro...although, Scott is making it hard to divert excess funds to a 3rd. January will help me determine where my funds end up

turbo96z28

had to rib you alittle ......i'll keep my eyes open down here in ol'Jersey for you if you want. you'd die if you knew how many of them are around here.

91Z-28

I rarely see any in NY. When people ask me what my car looks like when they find out I have a Camaro, I tell them to think IROC. That acryonym defined a whole generation of Camaros.

demonspeed

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not talking so much about the road course as I am real world. Most people aren't ever going to push their cars at that sort of event - or even on the street. Drag racing, OTOH, brings out many people as it's not very expensive, easy to do on a Friday night, and you don't need to travel for the most part. Not to mention it's usually a bit easier to lay into the throttle at a light than it is to throw your car around turns during the middle of the day. See where I'm going with this?

So basically, what was the point in buying a SS over a Z28? If I would have been able to afford a brand new SS before discontinuation, I would have gone with a SS with the 1LE package. The fact is, I couldn't. Most SS's you see don't even have either the Bilstein or 1LE. So again, why? My 00 SS had the same deCarbons as my 01 Z28 had. The SS was supposedly just larger sway bars in 00-02, correct? IMO, my Z28 handled more neutral than my SS did - even though my Z had the comparably tiny tires with the huge sidewall. I'm no suspension or road racing/auto X guru, that's just normal driving I pushed to the limit on the street. I might be wrong, but that's just what I *thought* I felt.

So I go back to the Cobra vs SS comparison. It doesn't matter what year we talk about, SVT threw in a COMPLETE package. You got a Cobra, you got everything. You got the brakes, the suspension (no optional suspension - you got it all), and most of all, a lot more power (compared to the GT). It doesn't matter that it took a supercharger in 03/04, the fact of the matter is Ford executed the Cobra much better than GM or SLP did.

I know Scott, that you simply can't say the SS wasn't "worth it", but you can at least offer something in the way to explain why this was the case with the SS. If it has to do with the Corvette (which if that's what it is, please, enlighten us), then I think that's silly. We've now got a 505hp Z06 (which I'm sure is only going to get better), so IMO, that LS2 C6 shouldn't even be considered the performance "cap" for the rest of GM performance cars. With a 450hp+ Shelby coming out and a Challenger (which I'm sure by 2009 it'll be more than 425hp), the Camaro simply can't hide behind the Corvette.

Again, as a SS and Z28 owner, it is my opinion that the SS was wishful thinking playing on expectations of a heritage prowess (much like the HEMI explosion), and above all else, an afterthought.

I digress back to the SVTOA and owner experience. It is my wish to see something of the sort from GM like Ford and SVT have done with the SVTOA. I'd love to see a SSOA that would include every year of a Super Sport since the Impala wore that distintion back in 64 (I believe it was 64, correct?). I don't care that people think the new SS models are a joke, nor do I care about what I just said about the 4th gen SS. I would be more than happy to start a local chapter as well.

Putting all of my comments aside about why I thought the 4th gen SS wasn't living up to what it should have, I thoroughly enjoyed my experience while owning mine. I loved every minute of it, and I was very proud to be driving a Chevy SS. The marketing "ploy" I complained about worked on me I bought it because I always wanted a Camaro SS and I didn't care about anything else. I've had 4 Camaros, and I will continue to buy them as long as they are available. I hope to purchase another LS1 Camaro in the spring to keep me tidy until you guys give me a 5th gen. I am anxious and I hope you won't dissappoint.

Again, Scott, your comments on my thoughts are very much welcomed. Thank you for visiting the board.

demonspeed

The Cobra.

I'm not talking about just who's quicker, I'm talking about the complete package, the ownership experience, etc. It doesn't matter that the LS1 wooped the 32V modular (less-boost), the fact of the matter is Ford put a lot more power into the Cobra, whereas GM threw on pretty much a muffler and a hood scoop and called it a day in the power department. Sure, you might say they didn't need to pack more power to beat the Mustang in the ¼, but they should have packed more to make the SS a complete upgrade over the Z28 - just as the Cobra was a complete upgrade over the GT.

You guys are silly to also say that the Mustang sucked because they had to a put a blower on it. Who cares? They did it, they made more power, and are still making Mustangs. Stock for stock, the 03/04 Cobra blows away the 67-02 Camaro. Hell, mod for mod, look at the times and numbers those 03/04 guys are putting down. Would I rather have a Mustang? Nope. I'm just making a point.

DrewSG

I agree with what you're saying, but they didn't really need too. How much cooler would the SS's and WS6's been if they had only came with the LT4 or got an LS6? The Mustang needed a complete upgrade to compete on a performance level, the F-Body didn't.

I'm sure with the next Challenger and GT500 raising the stakes, GM knows it can't go at this half assed with $3000 badges

demonspeed

They didn't need to if all they cared about was getting to the finish line first (which is most important to many), BUT, for customer enthusiasm and PRIDE, then, it is my belief, that they should have looked at what Ford had done. Again, refer to my SVTOA references and the complete upgrades included when you made the purchase of a SVT product.

Let's just look at the past 20 years...

Monte Carlo and El Camino SS of the 80's got the L69 305 HO. Sure, it was less than stellar, but for the times, it was substantial.

94-96 Impala SS recieved the LT1, whereas the Caprice got the TBI.

04/05 Impala SS and Monte Carlo SS got the supercharged 3800.

Cobalt SS gets you either the blown LSJ 2.0 or the uplevel 2.4. It's a complete make over of the Cobalt too.

The Silverado SS received the 3/4 ton HO 6.0.

The C1500 454SS got that huge monster in a half-ton truck.

And look at the Trailblazer SS... That is the complete package I am refering to!

I think the only cars that didn't get anything special were the 00-05 NA MC SS's and the S10 SS. Though the 94/95 S10 SS had the HO 4.3 Vortec which I don't beleive was available with other S10's.

Just a little more to think about

Jason E

They're still clapping around here, too...just saw one on my way to work this morning. Thanks for the offer, but likely the kind of IROC I want I will find only in Hemmings or on eBay. While my Z28 has 62k miles on it (bought with 40k) and looks and drives like brand new (I have my dad's Formula to compare it to!!), the IROC I will buy will be a whole lot lower in mileage. I don't want anything with over 35k or so...and there are a lot of cars out there if I do a nationwide search. It has to be a 350 (or 305 TPI/stick), has to have t-tops, has to be black, grey, blue or maroon, has to have the uplevel cloth interior, has to have full power options, has to have G92 and has to be an '88-'89. The mileage limit is there because I want something as close to brand new as I can get, like my Z was. I don't want a car to restore, or a basket case, because to make it perfect it will cost me as much as buying a clean original! That's why I sold my Formula. I have turned down many a clean IROC solely because I want a perfect one, and am willing to pay for it. As you can see, that eliminates a ton of cars!! Add in the mileage factor, and I know I'll be spending $12-15k for one, based on today's prices...which means I'll need a home equity loan to buy it...

Which I am totally fine with

Chris 96 WS6

And as I understand, this little known fact gave Dave Hill fits!

I've pulled this fact out several times on people only to get called a liar. Nice to get another confirmation on it.

Just goes to show you live axle is not a limitation on a properly set up car, not that I want to open up that can of worms again, LOL.