First I'll say, I don't think that there is a Firebird coming. With that out of the way, I've been told more than once, "never say never'. Take that for what it's worth.
I've also been reminded that the Canyon was never part of the GMT355 program, it just sort of happened in 6 months when GMC dealers demanded a version of the Colorado.

So, will there be a 'badge engineered' Firebird? Everyone says no, including BL.....but like they say "never say never". Anyway, don't hold your breathe, and personally I think such a Firebird would be a waste of resources..

But in the UNLIKELY event that Firebird returns, Pontiac should aim it at a different niche, IMO. I mean come on. Is the "I would ONLY buy a Camaro if it had a split grill and arrowhead" market really that big ? I say no. And GM knows it.

 

Charlie/Guy,

What do you make of Lutz's comment that the Camaro became "too heavy"? That was by far the most interesting quote in that blurb. At ~3500 pounds for a 4th Gen LS1 car, could we really be sweating too much about the 5th Gen's weight? Could we actually see a lighter car than the 4th Gen?

 

I was told these exact same words in 2003 and 2004..... about the Camaro!

Hmmm......

 

We already knew the Pontiac version wasn't going to come back. He kinda cut right to the chase with this one : That kind of badge engineering "is what got us in trouble in the first place," he said of GM's woes during an interview at the show.

 

It seemed like all the generations were too heavy. Even the concept car doesn't look like its going to tip the scales any differently.

 

I guess I read it wrong; thought he was talking about the Firebird. With the powerful engine, it was probably alright. But I remember my exes V6 Firebird, the car just 'felt' heavy.

 

Just my opinion on this, but I think Solstice should have been called Firebird. It is almost exactly what the original concept was. The Formula name to me is better than GXP.

But as for Trans Am, consider this: When they made the original arrangement with GM for $5-10 per car, it was in, what? '69? And that was supposed to be for a limited run of cars. couple of years if I remember. Instead, SCCA got payed for many many years, though they were stuck at that same fee.

Now, it's 27 years later. The Trans Am name means far and away more than it did in 1969 due to it's history with GM (probally fewer than half the people here never knew Trans Am was a famous production car based race series).

Just inflation alone makes a $10 royalty laughable (inflation alone probally puts it in the $70 dollar range). And if YOU owned the Trans Am name, would you try and get as much as you could leasing the name?

 

If they had named the Solstice "Firebird", I think that would have been salt in the wounds for Firebird enthusiasts and owners alike. Badge engineering won't be dead for sometime until these guys are as rich as we can't possibly fathom in our fleshly state. Never. Just my $.2

 

I think IF they were to bring back the Firebird it should fit in with Pontiacs current styling. Think of Solstice the size and porportions of the new Camaro. Then they would have a modern pony car to go along with the heritage pony car and would appeal to different crowds.

David

 

Then what w/ the GTO? A Firebird(not to sound arrogant) will never happen. GTO is the name.

 

GTO is Pontiacs halo car for now and into the future. Simple as that.

 

This absoloutely burns me up! Not only because its true, but because I believed in the 4th gen car and the company and was burned with horrible compromises and engineering flaws that came with the 4th when I bought the car. If GM gets anywhere near close to the disaster the 4th gen was again, then I give up. I dont care what anyone says about performance of the 1st Gen, but it is head and shoulders above the 4th's supposed "advances" in looks as well as ergonomics. A 35yr old car was much more ergonomic than a new 4th gen!

Ill say it a thousand times. The 4th Gen is NOT a vette. It was a muscle car with a ton of compromises to get it even close to a vette. Shove the motor under the dash making it hard to work on, no problem, making the trunk a pit thats full when the t tops are out and the area over tank usless unless the pit is filled or you stuff falls into the ravine? why not, sales is NO issue. Long front overhang so the car scrapes steep inclines such as McDonalds. Sales not an issue. Make the dash extend so it hits your knees in the passenger side. and a bump in the floor board under their legs. The one thing I did like was the areo dynamics of the 4th, thats it! It hurts my jaw thinking about it! GM has a second shot at this. The new design is VERY loosly designed on the most sought after 69 design. A design that rivals BMW in style. If they do a Major total redesign with the next gen loosing what they gained back, Im done banging my head against the wall.

 

The only want to badge engineer lame cars into Pontiacs... it is their plan to run Pontiac into the ground.

 

Got to step in and lob a grenade at you from the "I love the 4th gen" side of the battlefield:

What compromises and flaws, care to name a few? Sure, I would have liked to be rid of the hump in the floor of the passenger footwell. And have a bit more suspension travel for a smoother ride. But that's about it.

It was "more ergonomic"? Then why was my 99 a lot more comfortable than my buddy's 68? And why are all the controls clearly marked and within easy reach? They even spot lit the power window controls and illuminated the pointers on the HVAC.

Well, it's not the same - but they ARE pretty close - I've logged a good bit of seat time in a C5, and the closest thing to a C5 is my 4th Gen Z28 than anything else. And I've taken more than one passenger out in the Vette and they say "this is just like your Camaro"

Sure, changing spark plugs is an adventure. But everyone's figured that out by now - and you can drop the motor out from the bottom, or pull it out from the top if you want. Having it under the dash helps get the near perfect weight distribution, a laid back windsheild makes it look like a jet fighter, and I'm all for it.

That T-Top storage system is the best of its kind, and one of the things I like best about the 4th gen. BTW, ever hear of soft sided bags? You can fit a small one back there with the T-Tops. But that's usually where I put my carwash towels when I travel. And I fit my 5 channel amp on the back wall to boot.

Wrongo - that's what the flip back and forth cargo area cover is for. Smaller hard sided suitcases fit there (the "carry on" sized roller jobs) And I can usually fit all my groceries there - it's exactly enough room to fit a 12 pack "fridge pack" of diet coke.


Long front overhangs are hot looking. Bad *** jet fighter sports cars need long pointy front ends. And learn how to hit driveways at an angle. Mines even lowered a half an inch and I've scraped it ONCE in 6 years and 129K miles.

Doesn't hit my knees, but okay, I'll give you the bump in the floor.


In other news - I'm a camaro guy if you look at my purchase history, but I'd love to see the Trans Am return. And it's my bet that one way or another, it will happen if Pontiac manages to continue to exist for 10 more years.

 

Getting in and out of it sucks if you are above average height, or average height, or a woman.

Getting in or out of tight parking spaces is a bitch.

The point was its not supposed to be the same.

75% of the people on the road don't know what wheels there car drives on, let alone the weight distribution. And they won't accept that as an excuse for why they have to amour-all an acre of dashboard. And that jet fighter windsheild sure makes for great visibility.

You're probably a young single male to. As am I, and you must go to the store daily, because a trip to Wal-Mart for me requires the "trunk", pit, and back seat.


Bad *** jet fighter sports cars? What are you twelve? Not to pick at you but you are the type of person the post was talking about. Everybody doesen't want what you want. Every one isnt willing to tolerate what you are. Lots of people who want what you want aren't willing tolerate what you are.


I get "Whats this hump in the floor?" Twice for every time one person rides in my car.