Look -- your first post said GM was losing 12 billion a month -- now you're saying 2.36 billion a month.

WHICH IS IT?

Perhaps you need to learn something before you post.

 

Do you even know what you're talking about, or are you parroting someone else's alarmist rants?

Tax rates have not changed between this summer and now. Yet you're sppouting off taxes as if that's the reason why people aren't buying new cars. You're making me start to think you played football without a helmet one too many times. The problem is a lack of loans. Pure and simple.

Also, if you have a legitimate source for that $80K tax redo claim in which taxes will go up, then post it here. And I don't mean some shadowy "they" said or any version of "I, you, me, or they know".

Otherwise, you're risking being marginalized.

Snooter, where on earth do you get your information & ideas?

GMAC is in the business to make money. They have been loaning to a so-called "competitor" for years.

There is no economic "guru" saying that GM should go bankrupt, you are talking about public polls. Again, like Scott pointed out, you need to get your information right before you post them as facts, or you'll be marginalized.

If your posts gets censored its because they are false and make no sense.

Besides, you can't say "always" gets censored. As we see here, quite a bit of your posts get through, even though they're wrong.

Which is what I said.

Your post came across as though you were saying that GM would not make Camaro to save money. The link and the quote you posted mentioned drastic action, and then you mention Camaro. I believe that's what you were getting at, and hence, my reaction.


GM does gain income on sales.

That sales money is included in the burn rate.

Great. Another paranoid crackpot.



Once again snooter, your posts are completely false, and in all honesty, anyone who takes these types of posts of yours seriously probally has brain damage.

Here are the facts.

GM burned through 2.5 billion dollars the past quarter.

Quarter means 3 months.

3 months is not 1 month, which you posted as GM's burn rate.

There is no "additional" burn rate. $75 million or anything.

You say you can read and you can add, but does your posts show it???

 

ahh..like you guys should learn how to build a product that people actually want to buy that is not in for repair 3 months after purchase?...

 

Just as I thought, it's a snooter troll.....

 

Ah, yes, now he has revealed himself.

 

Everybody needs to stop, take a breath and think about some things.

And just for full disclosure, I probably have more of a vested interest in this than most because I own a little bit of GM stock and depending upon the outcome of things, that investment position could be wiped out.

Firstly when GM declares bankruptcy, it will probably NOT mean the complete and utter end of GM. And yes I said when, because based on the 3Q financial #s, GM is fast running out of cash, probably too fast for the gov't to get around to doing anything about it.

When GM declares bankruptcy, it will probably be Ch 11 reorganizational bankruptcy. This will allow GM to continue operations while the bankruptcy makes its way through the courts, which could take years, especially with a company the size of GM. Some Ch 11 bankruptcy's have taken upwards of a decade to emerge from the courts. Even after emerging from bankruptcy, GM will still likely be around as the whole point of Ch 11 is to allow a company to remain in business.

The 2 biggest most immediate changes from a Ch 11 that would impact GM would be suspension of payments on the ~$45B in outstanding corporate debt and the ability to reject unfavorable contracts, including union contracts. I don't know the details of the outstanding debt but that alone could stop the bleeding of cash depending upon the interest rates.

At the end of the process, GM would likely emerge as a lot stronger company with a clean slate to work with. As of this moment, the worst case scenario I see is that GM emerges wholly owned by their creditors, wiping out the shareholders, but GM would still exist. I just don't foresee a large company, with as many hard assets as GM has with the potential to make money, being forced into liquidation bankruptcy.

While this whole process goes on, everybody just remember that there are more than few large companies in the US, that have gone through Bankruptcy and are still around. Delta Airlines and Texaco are a couple that did and are. Which BTW it took Delta almost 2 years to get out of Ch 11...

Oh and a couple more things to remember, any company will always toe the line that they "aren't considering bankruptcy" until the papers are filed because if a company were to come out and say "we"re declaring bankruptcy" investors would flee like rats leaving a sinking ship leading to stock price collapse.

On top of that, they might not have any control over whether they enter bankruptcy at all. As a company, if your creditors are afraid they won't get paid, they can petition the court to have you involuntarily placed in bankruptcy.

Right now its entirely possible we might wake up monday morning to find that GM has been put in Ch 11 by their creditors...

 

Can you build a car from raw materials? Can you assemble the entire car without making a single mistake?

No?

Then shut up.

 

LOL!! Top 5% of wage earners is 100k+.....not that much

 

Those same economists think that hyper inflation is a good thing in the end. It will cause a correction.

 

Are we actually having a discussion on GM "going under"? Not gonna happen for a variety of reasons.

#1) Unemployment is at 6.5%, a 14 year high- the country can't afford to add to it with a whole bunch of displaced autoworkers.

#2) Government will intervene (see #1) ; probably in the form of a "bailout" but what everyone has to understand is the current bailout actually has tangible assets attached. The $700b "we" gave out isn't charity where we never expect to get it back; just will probably take 5-10 years to do it. I would expect that an automaker bailout would be much the same- effectively a loan based on x, y, z, etc being restructured. That will probably mean Chapter 11 prior to the bailout being approved; that isn't as bad a thing as people think IMO.

#3) The intangible American pride. Think about what a downer it would be to see GM (or the others) fail. You wouldn't have to work for, or be somehow linked to GM, to feel the pain of it going under. It would be a totally different public sentiment (IMO) than watching Bear Sterns going under.

 

Guion,
It looks like snooter gets his info from Fox "news".

 

Guy, GM burned thru $6.9 billion in Q3 which is $2.3 billion per month.

 

Guys, let's be sure to keep a few things in mind here before posting...

• Want to bash GM or the Camaro? Wrong site.
• Want to say the sky is falling? Be sure to quote actual numbers, facts, and data and not armchair speculation.
• Want to gain or make clarification to someone's post? Do it respectfully or don't do it at all.

That's the kind of site this is. Deviation is not allowed here and will be removed.

Thanks, all.

 

It will cost the govt. more to let GM go under than to help them. Think of all the unemployed people and the costs of that to the govt. (i.e. less taxes being collected from people with little income and then the social security they will be collecting, lost GDP to the U.S. economy, etc. etc.). Plus there is a huge psychological factor of a large co. that's been around for a long time going bankrupt. They will not let a huge company like GM go under. Not gonna happen.

 

Well, I for one think that they're going to go the Ch.11 route, combined with government aid, so they can continue development on the promising things they have in the pipeline while maintaining warranty coverage.

In the end, I hope it means downsizing (as painful as that is to hear) and a reorganization. There are too many brands. GM needs an identity.