If I may borrow these quotes for a point that is not directed at Charlie.

This may be out of context of which these were intended but here goes. Ive been guilty of this myself in the sense that I was soo sure and pasionate I was right that I didnt let someone pitch their view after I pitched mine. I see that happening here. Not just with the people who like one thing or another but also with the people who feel something could, in their opinion, could be improved, changed or replaced with something else.

When you log on you know what your opinion and point of view is. So pitch it, debate it etc... but when someone says they like this and dont like that and another person is hounding them as to why they dont get why they should like or not like something that stifles opinions, and moreover feedback. Not everyone wants to fight, so if someone doesnt pipe up because they dont want to get into a full blown argument did you really win whatever debate you thought was so important? In my opinion you may have lost more than you may have considered. Just because you stopped listening to someone doesnt mean they came around to your point of view. While you may feel youve won, those people may rebut your arguements with their wallets, and to that I would perfer respectful cander and constructive criticism. I try to do that on this site sometimes successful, others not so much. For instance of things that are not going the way Id like, Ive learned that not having roll down 1/4 windows I would have liked means weight saved and crash standards met. Ive learned that not having the gas cap on the drivers side while I still perfer it means less chance of door dings and it helps make the vehicle meet global standards as I understand it. Even though I would perfer the e brake driver side where its convienient apparently for some taller people its more convienient for them to have it passenger side. Roll down 1/4 windows would have been nice, but now that I understand it I feel the trade off was worth it. For the other two I gained perspective.

Former GE CEO Jack Welch had a "work out" program. For those that dont know, work out was designed to circumvent burocracy and management knows all that leaves ideas and problem solving soley in the hands of a few. "Work out" worked by having employees meet at a local college moderated by a professor. Management presents a problem and then has to leave. The professor moderates while the employees who are on the front lines debate and come up with solutions. Jack Welch quoted one of GEs employees when asked how he felt about GE's workout program in his book "Jack from the Gut". "For years you paid for my hands when you could have had my brains for free." This is relevant I believe not only here but with everything. If you stifle others opinons, then you are not getting all they have to offer, and for free no less. You may or may not come away feeling the same but hopefully you gain an genuine unspun alternative perspective as to why someone has a differnt view.

Sorry for the winded post...

 

LET'S INCREASE THE PEACE!!!!

PLEASE --- NO MORE BASHING.

Give respect until you see the final production model(s).

These folks are working H A R D ! ! ! to help us out, and meet, or exceed our expectations!!!

If you are so disappointed this early in the game, GO BUY A LEXUS.

<rant over>

Cheers and peace, to all.

 

How about if you're upset with the level of discourse on this forum after four months you join a different one?

 

The discenting opinions aren't the problem. It's the over the top, irrational and insecure reactions that have become too common. That's why I've pretty much given up on the car and this board.

 

Opinions are just that. They aren't right or wrong. For the life of me I don't understand where all the fuss is coming from.

 

As my fathers always says
"Opinions are like A$$ Holes, Everyone has One"

 

actually, it's this kind of intolerant attitude that is the problem. the guy is here 4 months. so what. a comment like yours is unwarranted.

 

The point ....../

 

Actually, youre post right there highlights my point pretty well. My problem isnt with discenting opinions and if it came across that way I REALLY mistated myself! The point I was trying to make was if you stated a differnt opinon and someone hounded you as to why you should have their opinon it gets tiring. Yes there is a difference between hounding and debating in my book. One is "the facts as I see them are and I feel", and the other is "youre wrong, youre wrong, youre wrong and you should feel...!" People hounding other people, means we(as enthusiasts) loose voices and perspective like yours of potential buyers. The fact that you said thats why youve given up was a real example of what I was trying to say here.

Im not sure who this was directed to or why. Ill assume since you didnt quote anyone, it was rebuttal to my thread? If so all the fuss is when people feel they cant express their opinons because one person posts 20 times a thread jumping all over people they dont agree with. Again, Im not talking about debating, its the youre wrong and you should or should not like what I like...







Im not sure if Im alone here but I feel you should be able to candidly yet respectfully say how you feel one way or another. I believe that does include, I dont like X and I wish it were Y without someone jumping down your back. I realize this is a Camaro site, but I dont think that means you have to like every detail. Infact I think input helped change the concept to the preproductioin, which I think is SOO much better looking in my opinon. I dont work for GM but this is something I feel strongly about... Silencing someone elses opinion because someone else feels they are that right is just wrong.

 

Actually, the point was not the level of discourse but to tollerate discenting views without insults like this. You could however had said what your point was a different way...

 

That wasn't an insult. That was a statement of fact. He, and now you, not only missed the flaw of the post I quoted, but the point of me quoting it.

Unless of course, you can explain to me how, "If you don't like it don't buy it," is a more productive arguement than, "If you don't like it leave."

 

How about we all step back for just a minute...and re-read those posts....
Because whether you wanted it to or not, the very thing the thread was supposed to address, and stop - just happened again!!!
The problem is that some folks don't know when to not say something, and others don't know when to "leave it alone." (sigh)

Please, proof-read your posts; and think "What kind of responses might I get?" That might help.

 

It was not directed at anyone in particular. I was just re-stating more or less what you just said. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And opinions don't need to be RIGHT or WRONG. And that being the case, they shouldn't be attacked for expressing an opinion that may run contrary to an opinion of someone else.

What I meant by the "fuss" was the huge amound of animosity that this interior business has generated. I've been here for 8 years, and I don't think I recall this much mudslinging over any particular topic, even the legendary SS vs Z28 debates.

 

Enough BS has happened the past few days. It is time for it to end. PERIOD.

 

I'm feelin you 5thgen69camaro, I've been trying to get this accross for days now.