The 4th gen sales trends led to the car's death, so I'm not sure we want to base our 5th gen business case on 4th gen trends. I would think its obvious to everybody here by now that the 5th gen has to appeal to a broader audience to survive.

 

Yes, DCX has 350hp cars but they are over 4000lbs and do NOT have performance gearing (except the srt's). They still get to 60 in under 6 seconds. With 400hp and lower gearing with a 4000lb car you coul easily hit 5 seconds to 60 as the ls1's did. Thats too fast for most people. If the car weighs 3600lbs, thats a sub 5 second 0 to 60. Do you want kids who have driven civics all their life driving that ont he road. One slip and they are through a house or into another car.

 

I think the mid level engine should be a V8 and should be able to beat the snot out of the Mustang GT and be on par with their special editions like the Mach 1, Bullit, etc... I would think ~400hp would be the magic number. I'm sure the GT will get a small bump in hp in the next two years and the special edition cars may get close to 400 if they get the 5.4 NA motor. i just dont want the midlevel or "volume" V8 Camaro getting knocked around by the special edition Mustangs.

The top level Camaro could then take on the GT500.

 

Yeah, what he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You either got some motor, or ALL motor from '96-'02. Before that, there was no motor or all motor.

I'd like some motor, great motor, THEN all motor...many of the general public would like a great motor, but don't want a car that's all motor...

 

If the motor was that big of a deal, then what happened to '05 GTO sales?

 

Screw that.. keep the Camaro extreme.. lets not lose focus from the concept.

GM always says how flexible this new global rwd platform will be.. how they can easily change all the dimensions and stuff.. There was even some talk about making profits on relatively small production numbers per model.

So I say, don't water the Camaro down.. Keep the styling extreme.. Thats what its focus should be. I don't want another Mustang.

If you want a more pratical car, why not just get another one of the varients that will be built off this platform?

Or does GM really still need to sell 100k of them a year to turn a profit? What ever happened to all that talk about relatively small prod numbers business model?

Again, I'm in the camp, that offering a gimp'd v8 engine, isn't really going save any susbstantial amount of money... If anything, i'll probably cause an increase of costs overall.

 

Since WHEN is a 325hp V8 in a car that will go 0-60 in LS1 4th gen territory a "gimp'd" model??? WTF is it with some of you people??? I am dumbfounded...

An engine in a box will not work, people. You say you don't want it "like the Mustang...watered down..."????? How the HELL is a Mustang watered down? The point is, more tractability and more livability does not necessarily water a car down...

And it sells a TON more cars than the engine in a box theory does...check Mustang's sales lately???

 

325 hp was great back in the 4th gen.. However now, we know there is a better standard mass produced performance V8.. The 400 hp LS2. Anything less than that engine for a V8, is gimped. Especially since its a pretty good bet the 5th gen is going to weigh in more.


I'm not advocating for an engine in the box at all. The whole cars gotta resonate with quality and performance. I totally agree, that this car has to be a great car, without taking in consideration of the drivetrain. As in no more excuses that "well, you pay for the power"


The Mustang is watered down because its still got a live rear axle, and they took the proportions of the concept, and did things like raise the the height of the roof, made it a bit narrower, etc etc.. True they could have done alot worse, but now it still looks a bit more upright and tall for my taste.. I'm afraid if the same is done to the Camaro, it'll loose its WOW factor, and to the mass's, it'll really look like another Mustang.


Yea they do sell alot of Mustangs.. But then again.. they sell even more Camry's.. Are sale numbers the sign of how good a car actually is?


I challenge GM to make the Camaro the best it can be with the extreme styling vision just like the Concept.. Time to break away from the Mustang. Might not be as pratical, but who's kidding that these cars are really pratical anyways? Style it for sleek looks and performance first. Concentrate with offering the latest and best mass production performance V8. (aka LS2 for now) Prove that this new global RWD platform is the real deal, and you can really make different cars off it, that share cost so they don't have to sell 100k+ units to turn a profit. Isn't GM also going to have other RWD V8 cars off this platform to fit the needs of performance with more praticality? Like, for example, the Monte Carlo?


IMO, if I want a more pratical and comfortable car RWD V8 car, I would get something along the lines of the GTO.. Else, if I wanted a Mustang, I will get a Mustang. In the perfect world, I would see the potential buyer walking into the Chevy dealership and going, "WOW! Look at that Camaro! Now thats a serious machine!" They might like it, but might be a little too impratical for their tastes.. However, thats when they look over and see a RWD V8 Monte Carlo and go, "Hmm, although this V8 Monte gives me most of the performance I want, but at more daily use and subdued friendly package".. Or look at a V8 Imapala and go "this is perfect, cause I really need the 4 doors".. Or, if the V8 is too much, then the V6's come in.. and they'll go "well, I don't need the power, since overall I still like the styling and quality of the cars itself, so I'll just go for the V6 version, which is plenty fast still, and save a few bux"

Meanwhile the Vette is a no nonsense purposefully lean and mean performance machine from the ground up..

And again.. I really really don't believe offering a midlevel V8 is really going to be any cheaper in the end when you tally up costs. Why woudl it be? It'll either have to share parts with the V6 model, or with the V8 model.. Only substantial differnce would be the engine, which I really doubt costs less than the LS2 or whatever.

 

Unfortunately, you are the kind of guy that GM needs to ignore for the base versions car. They can give you what you want in an upper level v8.

 

exactly.. so keep it simple and non redudant by offering a base and then and upper level car.

I'll say this.. Really, as the end consumer, I don't see a problem with a mid level V8.. However, I'm on the side speculating (we are all are aren't we?) that a mid level V8 in the end, will not cost GM significantly less to design and manufacture.. Therefore I feel its not worth making. If someone can somehow convice me that putting another model varient in the middle with a smaller less powerful V8 will really indeed cost GM less $3k-4k overall than the upper level V8, then go do it.

But I doubt it.. SInce all I see is parts sharing from either the V6 or V8 model.. with the only significant change of the engine.. which I kinda doubt really costs gm $3-4k less to provide than a LS2 equivalent.. Then the trouble of putting yet another line in manufacturering and order.

At best, I speculate GM offering this midlevel at one pricepoint, then artifically inflating the upper level V8 a few thousand to make the price "fit".. Which I am totally against. Better to save that money and headache, and make the upper level V8 slightly cheaper.. or the base model even a better value.. Or imporve the car overall, and people will love it, no matter if it has the big V8 in it or not.. Again, this is all my speculation..

If you can convice me otherwise... but I doubt it.

 

I gotta say, I'm still kinda intrigued with the possible excellent handling dynamics a hi-po V6 in the power ranges we're talking about could offer over a heavier V8.

This would, I guess, loosely relate to guy's post in the future car section.

 

I heard somewhere that LS4 and the 3.9 V6 weigh about the same. Can anyone confirm?

 

Makes sense...3.9 is iron block, 5.3 car motor is alloy...

 

My concern is that if the midlevel car comes with a 325hp V8, the car will still cost about the same as a 400hp V8. My guess would be between $26-$28k. If the top level V8 is a 475-500hp V8 that competes with the GT500 I'm sure it will cost $40K+ which is out of my price range as well as others .

 

It won't.

What if I don't want to spend $30-$40k dollars on a upper level v8? Is a "gimpy" 325hp v8 going to satisfy me? Hell no. A 400hp v8 in a $28k car is going to, nicely I might add. You guys are so afraid of this much power, but if GM could bring this formula to market, I am sure they would advertise the hell out of how much more power their Camaro makes than the Mustang v8.

I don't think people who don't want to drop $40k on a Camaro should be punished by having a weak *** v8 be their only alternative. Besides, I do not want to see a GM performance v8 at the end of the decade making only 325hp. I would rather see a v6 doing this. If there is one think I still think GM has going for it, it is their sledgehammer powertrains. I see no reason for them to handicap themselves in a department that they otherwise have the upperhand in. Ford doesn't keep their power levels down to sell Mustangs; Ford keeps their power levels down because their Modular v8s aren't that great.