Come on. The side mirrors look nothing alike.

 

wow can someone post a full view of that red mustang...that looks EXACTLY the same as the camaro.

most retro cars bite the dust so they don't have to worry about redesign...i don't think either the mustang or camaro will not continue so i will be interested to see where they go. a redesign of the redesigned first gen is an odd concept. i like this concept, but to continue to tweak it as if starting all over with the first gen is hard to imagine.

 

I agree with this so much that I bought my 69 in 04 to build the car that GM should have built. I wanted an C4 IRS with an LS2 or a 383 and a Tremec 6 spd. ive been told most people just get fiberglass leaf springs. I was going to cut the gills for rear cooler brake vents and run front brake cooler from the space on the outside of the 69's front headlights as it wasnt an RS. I was actually glad the 4th gen was dead and upset that it existed. As the years went by performace companies would put the current Mustang in their ads and the 69 Camaro regaurdless of the year.

When GM let slip that Camaro might come back what do ya want in it, I tried to look at my 69 project(which in reality became a $8400 paper weight), BMW, Mustang for ideas, and the 4th gen to see what went wrong.

Mustang was easy they never changed the formula. other than the 3rd year when the car got bigger and sportier. For the 4th gen 20 years was enough of the long front overhang thank you. I was always scraping something, ramps were difficult and you had that much more front end to slide under to get to the engine. To my eye it didnt look that great either. BMW had no front overhang. I dont even know what its called with cars but my fathers a carpenter and I was thinking roof or porch "overhang" that extends past the house. I was miserable with the hard to clean huge angled windshiled that covered my fat 3800 that was shoehorned in under it. The 02 sensors were constantly throwing codes and I wasnt smart enough to put in simulators. The engine should have been easily accessable. The car was an engineering disaster.

BMW 3/6 series are real similar to what a successful pony car could be I think. Especially with 69 influence. They are quick but dont compromise handling. IRS over SRA. They give you everything, Why couldnt a pony car do this minus the exotic breakable stuff. It has the power.

So when alot of people on GMI were argueing ungodly power, 1/4 mile times and mustang performance comparison when asked styling questions of what they wanted I was trying to make a case for 5 years of ideas, some of which got traction with others. Then again I guess you could say the orange GTO concept had some of that so maybe I was just regurgitating what was already in the works.

The biggest lesson I took from the 4th gen was; ANY design with crappy execution under it will eventually become unatractive.

The biggest lesson I take from Toyota and Subaru and I may get flamed is it can look as exciting as rearanging your sock drawer but if it lasts, has the reputation people will buy it.

As far as restyle, Id like it to start a BMW like restyle akin to the BMW style 80-present Camaro version keeping the 69 soul. In reality regaurless of what anyone says, The next Camaro will probably be what is ever popular at the time. Style gets notice. Proper engineering execution brings people back and builds reputation.

 

 

I really don't get the dead end comment about generation 3.

 

Well, the answer is obvious....
Chevy took influence from European roadsters and GT cars to make the first 2nd gens...







Well....why cant it work now?

 

The cycle just repeats itself. Car starts off blocky,(1st gen) over time the corners get rounded and smoothed and a more aero wedge look. (4th gen)
Then when we get as round and as smooth as we think we can (like the c5) we come out with something with shaper corners again(c6) and the cycle repeats.

 

What "retro" cars bite the dust? Do they "Bite the dust" any more often than other designs? The last Camaro, the mid-90s Caprice, the Fox & SN95 Mustangs, Probes, even the Aurora (all very modern, almost futuristic designs when they came out) designs all bit the dust as well.

It's funny how some people look at the 5th gen Camaro, and because it has styling cues that defined, say, a 69 Camaro, but in an almost futuristic way, they think it's "retro" and a dead end styling-wise.... Yet, the current Corvette has styling cues that even more closely relates to a '69 Corvette (also presented in a very modern way), yet there isn't a peep.

Curious.

 

Aaron, you nailed the cycle of car design. Thank you for seeing beyond the cliche "retro" terminology.

40-50s, cars were rounded, getting to a point where you can't add any more chrome, and tail fins can go no higer. Lincoln Continental essentially started a new trend with it's lack of chrome, and squared off look.

60s-70s, cars became more and more sculptured (and again, overchromed) until we got into the early 80s when Ford essentially kicked off the "Aero" look.

80s-90s, cars again became more rounded. Chisled Caprices and Crown Vics lost the angular look. Chrysler's LH cars as well as Camaros took this overboard. It worked for the LHs, and worked only for a short time on the 4th gen. But Chrylser, through it's LX and Ford via the Mustang, went for the chisled, look again.

The whole idea behind car design is to make something stand out in the marketplace. A design goes as far as it can, and then goes in an entirely different direction. Rounded becomes angular. Chisled becomes rounded. Chrome goes plain, plain goes chrome.

The 5th gen parked next to the 1st gen is light years ahead of the 1st gen Camaro. They both share a 3 box design & a full width grille. GM designers managed to make a car that is futuristic, yet at the same time is isn't going to be mistaken for anything but a Camaro.

"Retro" seems thrown around mindlessly by people who mean "Heritage". Does a car look like it actually came from another era, or is it futuristic while maintaining the hints and cues of that car's DNA?

The Dodge Challenger ended production in 1974. If Dodge made a restyled Challenger the following year in 1975, does the new Challenger look like it would fit into that era without batting an eye?

...Yes. I'd consider that Retro. It's actually a copy of that era's design, but in tidier dimensions.

Could the design of current Mustang be transported back to 1974 and fit right in?

Actually yes. Ford had pictures of 60s era Mustangs on the wall and sought to bring them all together in a single car. Although they ended up with something both identifiable and new, all the design elements we've seen before. The result is exactly what it looks like... all of Mustang's history in one car.

But...does the 5th gen Camaro look like it could be a 1971 Camaro?

Not on your life!! You couldn't even pass it off as a 80s era Camaro. GM's approach was much different than Ford or Chrysler's. They may have had Ed Welburn's yellow '69 Camaro in the studio for inspiration, but they used it ONLY as a jump off point. They took the design and ran with it. They amped it up. They took the design into the 21st century.

They essentially asked themselves "If the Camaro had NEVER went with the 2nd gen design, what would the car look like after 35 years of evolution??" The 5th gen is the result.

This is also why I think it's silly (let alone confounding) whenever anyone says or implies that this design has nowhere else to go.... HELLO! You are looking at a '69 design that insantenously evolved 35 years!! You look at the car & you can easily imagine years of evolution.

After what GM has just pulled off with the new Camaro design makes a next generation based on this design all but child's play.

 

Frankly, I'm amazed that 6th gen photochops haven't showed up yet

 

I have been trying to make that point hit home and I just couldn't have put it better myself. Look at the design 10 years from now and it will only look 5 years old.

 

My question is for GuionM . Why do you talk so bad about
the 4th Gen Camaro ? Im just curious cuz ive honestly never
heard a positive thing come from you about the 4th Gen .
Not picking a fight im honestly just curious

 

I'm not Guy, but I've heard him vent in the past about some of the same "issues" most of us 4th gen owners have had with our cars... frequently having to replace window motors, leaky t-tops, leaky rear differentials, fiberglass door panels, etc.

 

I see and agree with the design "cycles", but overall cycles vs recreation of one car from a past one is TOTALY different!

Yes, the 50's had rounded design and the 60's a more sharp edged look, and the 90's was rounded and the 90's was edged...but in NO WAY does any car from the 90's look like ANYTHING from the 50's!!
The 50's too design inspiration from aircraft. Fins, wings, large glass "cockpits", "gun sights" over headlights, etc etc. Massive amount of chrome. We have never seen another design system like that.

While I think that the 5th gen is a beautiful car, and an fantastic modern take of the 1969 Camaro, it is still a throwback design. I wanted something that moved foward with design, something that has just as much of a sharp design as the 5th gen, but less influence from the past generations.

I dont see ANY 69 Corvette in the C6, sorry Guy.

 

I seriously hope they stay way from any European styling. I just don't (personally) find anything the least bit appealing about European styling.