But it wouldnt have walked one of the baby cube LT1's from the Caprice in the LT1 years ( yes , there was a small cube LT1 engine in the Caprices different from the Impala SS engine ) , nor would it have walked a 4.8 LS1 from the truck in the LS1 years .

 

How about a 307, 327 and 350 V8? That way every camaro could have a V8.

Of course, that would be kind of silly if a lighter, more efficient V6 (possibly supercharged) could deliver equal or better performance than the smaller V8s. The V8 mystique is nice (can't argue there), but shouldn't a V8 be about more than just saying you have a V8?

Which begs the question: which would you rather have in a base model... a big V6 that's quicker, or a small V8 that's slower?

 

V8. If I was worried about speed, I wouldn't be getting a base car.

 

Agreed....it is the american way!

 

V8 It sounds so much better

 

What is your point?
I simply remarked on a post stating that a 305 would be good competition for the 3800 v6 series II in the 4th gen, because the v6 would simply walk away from the 305. The 305 was horrible motor. I have heard guys say you can make power from it, but you can make power from anything if yoiu throw enough money at it.

 

A TBI 305 yes.

A TPI 305 auto--close. A TPI 5 speed, not a chance.

 

The 305 was a fine and reliable base V8 for the time, it wasn't originally intended for performance though.

Regardless, I'd put a good running later 305 TPI 5Spd G92 against a 3.8 4th Gen anyday. The best L98's got low 14's, the best LB9's got some good high 14's. If the car was a 1LE I'd put even more money on it.

 

I could join into the "how much of a boat-anchor was a 305" discussion in depth, but I'll leave you with this little fact and then move on to my main point:

A 1990 Sunbird Turbo GT was 1.4 seconds quicker to 60 and a full second quicker in the quarter mile than a 1983 Trans Am.

1983 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 9.2/17.0
1990 Pontiac Sunbird Turbo 7.8/16.0

I honestly don't know if I could live through be destroyed by a full second in the quarter mile by a J-car.




My main point:

The thread starter may be right. GM should seriously study having a V8 available in the 325-350hp range, specifically to beat up Mudstain GT's. It'll need DOD and a gentle rear end gear and need to clock in with really good fuel economy numbers.

Find out what the market says about that motor, and compare it to having a V6 that can do nearly the same thing at about 300hp.

I fear, however, that in our zeal for Camaro we are losing sight of the fact that the car cannot be everything to everyone, and most assuredly SHOULD NOT be everything to everyone.




***

 

The 305 TBI's downfall was terrible heads/peanut cam. I've seen some quick though. Although, IMO not worth the time as they did not give you one thing performance oriented from the factory to work with...

Although, it's all cheap mods because you can do it cheap:

LT1 Cam, Vortec Heads, Open Element, Tuning...

 

I agree the car should not be everything to everyone...I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is that Camaro has always been about AFFORDABLE V8 performance. Sure, you could get a $23k '02 Z28...but who the hell wanted one? No rear window defogger...no foglights...and who buys anything but a Wrangler these days with crank windows?

What we needed was a $1,000 4.8 V8 option on our loaded $23k Firebirds...for $24k, it was spot on a Mustang GT in every way, and even had t-tops. THAT would have been workable...

I understand the car wasn't selling. I understand GM wanted to cut costs, and one way to do that was not certify a third engine. Know what? They didn't even bother to certify a 3rd engine back in '93, when the car was SUPPOSED to sell in large #s. Imagine how well it would have sold in '94+ when the 200hp 4.3 V8 came out for the Caprice. Sure, it was only 200hp...but it was way better than the 160hp 3.4...and comparable to the 215hp '94-'98 Mustang GTs.

Food for thought, gentlemen...and I hope someone from GM is reading this. GM is getting soooo much better with engine selections. Consider that the J cars from '03-'05 had 1 engine...'06 Cobalts have 3. Impalas used to have 2 engines...now they have 3. Malibus have 3 engines versus 2. GM is getting back to where they used to be in the powertrain game...the top. I am proud to have a Grand Prix with an s/c 3800 AND a V8. Now if they advertised the damn car, it'd be amazing what it could do...

 

Even if GM could do a V8 option for a $1000 at their cost (I kinda doubt it... a whole lotta parts have got to get beefed up relative to a 250hp V6), from a business case standpoint I'm a little bit unsure as whether or not it makes sense.

An all-aluminum 4.8 with DOD and all the doo-dads ain't going to be a whole lot cheaper than an all-aluminum 5.3 with DOD and all the doo-dads - the part count and weight are basically the same.

Here's a good rule of thumb for cost:
Equal part count + equal weight = equivalent cost.

Now, there's some variation there due to economies of scale due to volume, and if you need ultra-trick parts for some reason, but my guess is that the 5.3 is produced in equivalent or greater numbers than the 4.8 and the technology within the two motors is basically identical.

I think a 4.8 and a 5.3 might be pretty much a wash cost-wise if the motors themselves are the only things considered.




****

 

The early 80's and early 90's were two very different times for performance. I wouldn't compare a CFI car to anything. The car you mentioned would lose to anything TPI, especially same year for same year, even with 2.73's and no G92. It pays to make actual comparisons and not be selective.

Most definetly.

 

If you guys want a base model V8, I think some of you are asking a bit much in the HP category if you would ever hope for GM to even think about it. A base model V8 with over 300hp that could beat a Mustang GT would totally kill sales of the more expensive 400hp model they want to sell.

In our minds it's logical because some of us won't have the "benjees" to throw down on a new Z and we don't care about all the creature comforts. All we want is the V8!!! You have to look at it from GM's number crunchers' perspective though. If GM's only option for sticking it to the Rustang is a 400hp Camaro with standard power-everything, that costs a few thousand more than a GT(base or Premium) we WILL buy it...plain and simple. Why spend the money on developing another model or more engine options when they know we'll buy the more expensive one anyway if only given two choices?

It's going to be like gas prices...we all b*&^% about them, but we all want to go places so we'll pay the piper and prices won't go down. They'll keep rising and we'll keep paying them. We'll all b*^%@ about the price of the V8, but we love the Camaro and those of us who can afford it(not me) and those of us willing to go into larger debt will buy the more expensive Camaro because we can't bare the thought of looking into the tailpipes of the blue oval pony only wishing we had two more cylinders.

I would consider ourselves very very fortunate if we can get a V8 Camaro for just under or at $30k. ...and IMHO, that's not bad considering the 100nahp advantage we'll have and the ability to get 30mpg!! (if the numbers remain the same till then)

If they were to produce a base model V8, I say the only way it could possibly happen would be for it to have 300hp max or closer to 280hp like the Lt1 4th gen Zs(keeping the V6 around 210hp). The V8's low-end guts should keep it performing above the zippy V6's and turbo 4's so as to avoid embarassment, but keep it close to the GT but not over. ...and the mod companies will be dancing a jig because there will be a flock Camaro owners who will have purchased their beloved who want to add a bit more ***** to surpass the GT.

We'll also have to take into consideration that Chevy will have to come out with a top-end model to compete with/beat the GT500 so there's yet another model thrown into the mix. 4 different models for a fair weather car? I doubt it in this day and age.

Despite any level of petitioning or pestering, Chevy will come out with a V6 and one V8 model to start. Then soon after a top-end model will appear with perhaps a modified or bigger V8 to compete with the GT500. If it doesn't happen that way, I'll gladly admit I was wrong by posting it on this board....but you know what, if they do, I'll be glad that I was wrong because I'll buy the base V8!

 

Dear Lord,
It ran a SEVENTEEN. If you actually wanted to accelerate in that car, your best bet was driving it off a cliff or the liberal use of explosives.

How's about this one:
1988 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA 7.4 15.9

This any better??? Now that's GOT TO BE a 170hp TBI car, but holy buckets, what a slug! In 1988, the Sunbird Turbo GT was rated only 5hp less than a low-end GTA (165hp vs. 170hp)!

A GTA and a J-car with a turbo is a DRIVER'S RACE?!?!?

I guess, at the end of the day, my point is that if you are going to have an entry level V8, something comparitively along the lines of a TBI 305 is probably more damaging to the car's reputation than it is worth.



Did we just agree on something?

Maybe we both oughta buy lottery tickets tonight...



*****