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A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
05-06-2006, 04:12 PM
#47
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 392
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
Originally Posted by jg95z28
Maybe the SS should be the all out general performance Camaro and the Z28 should be the road-race Camaro. In that sense both could be top dogs in those categories against the competition. To say one handles better then the other is an oxymoron isn't it? All Camaros handle well, that's why they were dubbed "the Hugger". 
05-06-2006, 06:11 PM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 2,926
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
Originally Posted by 5thgen69camaro
You do understand the 1st gen Z28 couldnt be more than 305ci in order to compete in SCCA rules? That means it couldnt use the 350, and using the 283 would be stupid. No engine fit the bill at that time. so destroking a 350(or really any small block with 4" bore there were quite a few) with a 283 crank gave you the 302. In 1970 SCCA rules relaxed a bit and permitted destroking larger engines. Thats why the Z28 went to the 350.
8 1LE's were built in 1988 for SCCA
111 1LE in 1989 built for SCCA gave you
engine oil cooler
4 wheel disc brakes
dual converter exhaust
p245/50ZR 16 tires
305 with 5spd or 350 with auto
145mph speedo 5500 rpm redline tach
AND when ordered without air you also got the following
aluminum drive shaft
big front Corvette brakes adapted to fit the Camaro
front fuel tank baffels
specific front and rear shock absorbers
different jounce bumpers
fog light delete, for better weight and air to radiator flow
That sounds ALOT like the Z28's of 69 that were built for SCCA racing
1969
Z28 Special Front /Rear susp
302 V8 (displacement limited by SCCA)
Optional Crossram
Required 4 spd manual
Heavy duty radiator
Temp controled fan
Quick steering
15X7 wheels
E70X15 white letter tires
Edited to site the Camaro White book as my reference. Just about everything is straight from it.
8 1LE's were built in 1988 for SCCA
111 1LE in 1989 built for SCCA gave you
engine oil cooler
4 wheel disc brakes
dual converter exhaust
p245/50ZR 16 tires
305 with 5spd or 350 with auto
145mph speedo 5500 rpm redline tach
AND when ordered without air you also got the following
aluminum drive shaft
big front Corvette brakes adapted to fit the Camaro
front fuel tank baffels
specific front and rear shock absorbers
different jounce bumpers
fog light delete, for better weight and air to radiator flow
That sounds ALOT like the Z28's of 69 that were built for SCCA racing
1969
Z28 Special Front /Rear susp
302 V8 (displacement limited by SCCA)
Optional Crossram
Required 4 spd manual
Heavy duty radiator
Temp controled fan
Quick steering
15X7 wheels
E70X15 white letter tires
Edited to site the Camaro White book as my reference. Just about everything is straight from it.
but.
the 302 was faster than ANY 350 availible, same for the 396 big block although marginally. 1LEs did NOT have a faster motor, regardless of what displacement they were. this is why i would still consider the Z28 different than a 1LE, albeit being very close.
05-06-2006, 06:52 PM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 1,093
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
Originally Posted by Sharker524
I used to own a Z28 and I want the SS to be top dog. Even if there's no chance in hell for me to own one, I'd like the car that I could own(under $30K) to be the Z28, because the SS badge is just ridiculous to me, these days.
I could never afford the 'top dog' Camaro but really want a Z28.
So let 'SS' be the top. Better yet, come up with a new Top model designation. Lose the SS altogether.
There's another option that's needed.
-- Drop the 'SS' designation and replace it with something else for Top Dog.
05-06-2006, 07:50 PM
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
Originally Posted by JoeliusZ28
very good points, and that definitely puts a new light on things.
but.
the 302 was faster than ANY 350 availible, same for the 396 big block although marginally. 1LEs did NOT have a faster motor, regardless of what displacement they were. this is why i would still consider the Z28 different than a 1LE, albeit being very close.
but.
the 302 was faster than ANY 350 availible, same for the 396 big block although marginally. 1LEs did NOT have a faster motor, regardless of what displacement they were. this is why i would still consider the Z28 different than a 1LE, albeit being very close.
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 05-06-2006 at 07:53 PM.
05-06-2006, 08:38 PM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 279
Ahem.....
What did I miss? 
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
And in the end I'm glad to see the issue appears to be settled and Z28 is going to be the top dog
Originally Posted by jg95z28
P.S. But it really doesn't matter now does it, since the decision has already been made. 
05-07-2006, 01:11 AM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 2,926
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
Originally Posted by 5thgen69camaro
Im not sure what you mean by faster. Did you mean more HP? An Aluminum drive shaft and fog light delete would certainly lighten the car for speed. On the same token Vette brakes would slow the car down in a hurry on a road course too. If SCCA would have let GM enter a 350 ci motor in 66 they would have. We would have had a 1969 Cross Ram 350 Z28 with the quick steering and heavy duty radiator. That Cross ram Z28 350 would have been that much faster(Road racing wise) than a SS 350... Not sure why you bring up the 396 Big Block(which was front heavy) unless you mean fast as in drag racing. Thats not what the Z28 was designed for...
05-07-2006, 01:33 AM
#55
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
Originally Posted by JoeliusZ28
you seem to have completely missed the point of my post. I said that regardless of the 302 only being a 302... it was still a faster engine than any availible 350, and argueably the 396. THAT is what sets the first gen Z28 apart from the modern day 1LE package. Modern day 1LE cars use the SAME engine with the SAME performance specs as the non-1LE car.
Good Lord! yes I know the 1st Gen had a seperate motor. The 327 was over the 305ci SCCA limit and the 283 was too small so a new motor was built combining the two out of NECESSITY.
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 05-07-2006 at 01:37 PM.
05-07-2006, 08:27 AM
#57
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,381
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
i have a v6, my bro has an ss and i say z28 should be the top car (actually i think ZL1 should as that just sounds bad *** to me, but that wasnt an option)
my brother thinks the ss should be top
my brother thinks the ss should be top
05-07-2006, 11:38 AM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 929
Re: A twist on the Z28 vs SS debate
OK, the background is that I own a 1LE Formula Firehawk and have owned an RS/SS Camaro (70.5). I voted SS for the "top dog" spot, but that doesn't tell the whole story. I see Z/28 and SS as very different takes on Camaro that can't really be compared on a 1 to 1 basis. My vote for SS merely refers to engine size and standard equiptment(read pricing). My main hope is that the two have very different personalities which approach performance from different perspectives.
