Solution to one of the bankrupt GM & Chrysler mfg and assembly problem, combine the Camaro & Challenger lines to save money. They are already overpriced Clones of each other.

 

I'm surprised no one looked at my link.

Maybe it will become more apparent when the market opens.

 

People don't want to imagine a world that does not contain "traditional" GM/Chrysler. It is extremely hard to do, but it's way past time we accept that GM isn't the 1955, 50%+ market share holding giant. The empire is folding. Olds and Pontiac are done....but what people want is for GM to soldier on as-is and somehow miraculously start making profit again. Emotions and longing for yesteryear clouds judgement - be it GM management or their die-hard fans.

Yeah, we get it, you hate Wall Street. You hate the financial houses. But what maybe you don't understand is that in a lot of ways, we're ALL a part of Wall Street if we have investments or retirement plans based on this stuff. You C-A-N-N-O-T bend or break the rule of law to spite a particular group that you don't like. It sets dangerous precident.

Instead of raging against Wall Street, it may be helpful to remember WHO put GM in this mess in the first place. A huge portion of the blame falls on the company with the initials G and M....

 

Just looked at it.

Do ya think a bankruptcy announcement is imminent?

 

....

 

GM is already down 13% before the market opening.

 

I agree with that strongly.

However, the ATF seems to be less concerned about preserving American heavy industry or industrial jobs, and more concerned about saving organizations which contribute heavily to political warchests.

 

Except GM clearly IS for sale because finding someone willing to buy them, assume and pay their debt is currently the only way that GM will continue in its current incarnation. If someone came along willing to do that right this second, GM would be sold faster than you can blink because whatever money the shareholders got out of the deal, would be infinitely more than they'd get out of a bankruptcy...

And its only hostile if the shareholders are unwilling. That $900 million market cap I mentioned was as of last night. Now its a little < than $700 million. If you offered the $900 million price of last night, shareholders would do backflips to sell, but strangely enough, nobody feels $900 million is a good enough deal for all of GM...



I'm sorry but thats just hilarious that you think our ability to produce weaponry depends upon the existence of the likes of GM. Again this is not 1945 where you can convert the GM assembly line to start producing tanks and fighters. An M1 Abrams and F-22 Raptor are whole different beasts compared to M4 Shermans and F6 Hellcats...

I work in US Army development and procurement engineering support, so trust me when I say GM and Chrysler could completely disappear off the face of the earth today and our ability to produce bombs tanks and bullets would be completely unaffected. The companies that produce our defense infrastructure are the likes of Boeing (you name it, they build it), Lockheed Martin (F-22, F-35, MLRS), General Dynamics (M1 Abrams), AM General (which still does the actual production of military Humvee as well as H1 and H2, GM only owns the Hummer name), Northrop Grumman (UASs as well as upcoming systems like the joint light tactical vehicle), BAE (Bradley IFVs).

You wanna worry about something that will impact our national defense, worry about the cuts being made to F-22 production, development of missile defense, and any number of other development programs. That hurts a lot of companies that have no other business.

If you want to worry about a particalur company or two, worry about the likes of General Dynamics Land Systems, which is composed of what were GM and Chrysler Defense). If they ever disappear that will mean no more tanks and other armored vehicles.


I don't recall saying that. China is as much a threat as any other major country.

Thing is, if two countries are economically entangled, the less likely they are to tangle militarily. Say China does get a lot of hard assets here in the US and then picks a fight. We can freeze those assets and hurt them severely. Same with all the US Gov't debt they have. Refusing to make payments to them during hostilities would hurt them severely.

Like I said, you're trading short term stability for long term harm. Specifically if you do this, you will kill every unionized industry in the country. The only alternative would be to put the workers on the gov't payroll indefinitely...

Sorry but I'd prefer to retire sometime before I die and the only way I'm gonna accomplish that is with the guys on Wall Street. Uncle Sam isn't going to facilitate that, if anything they're going to hinder that...

 

Some people see the word "bankruptcy" and immediately think "liquidation". If and when that happens (yes it's still "if") it may only happen here in the US. Also GM then will be forced to eliminate or sell off its less profitable parts. Chevrolet, Cadillac, Corvette and even Camaro, won't be on that list. Maybe I'm being hopelessly optimistic, however I chose to take the "wait and see" approach rather than run around like a chicken with my head cut off screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling". Yes, it may actually be falling for GM, however I choose to step out of the way.

 

Nova....I have one thing to say to you.......Bravo!!!

Bob

 

People are used to retail bankruptcy like Circuit City, where typically by the time they hit rock bottom, they don't have any enterprise value left, and the only value they have is what's sitting on the shelves.

That situation is not where GM is. Chrysler may be there but not GM. A GM thats come through reorganization, has shed everything but Chevy and Caddy, shed some plants and workforce, shed a few union contracts and obligations, shed its debt and most importantly, is under new management, has an enourmouse amount of enterprise value.

Restructured, under new ownership and properly managed, I believe GM could make gobs of money and I believe thats why the secured creditors are fighting so hard for their share of the equity in the new company. If the new company didn't have that chance, they'd just let things go and write the loss off.

I think you're being realistic. Nobody knows for sure what will happen, but a large group of people seem unwilling to let the process go forward and see. I guarantee whatever comes out the other side will be a lot better than the zombie (walking dead) GM we have now...

I personally imagine a leaner more agile GM that can actually anticipate where the market is going and execute to take advantage of it ratherr than reacting to the market several years later. I'd like to think that had GM been leaner, more agile and smarter, there wouldn't have been an 8 year "Camaro Gap" at all...

 

100% with you on this. I'm actually looking forward to this moving forward so we can see how a new leaner company deals with certain GM products in the changing times, like Corvette, Camaro, Cruze and CTS.

 

^^^^^^^Thank you nova!! Very, Very well worded!!! I completely agree with you on the above

 

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/..._N12311898.htm

tik tok

 

What if you go down one more level? The manufacturers/machine shops that produce components for all of those companies you listed may very well rely on GM and Chrysler for a large percentage of their business.