VIDEO: Camaro Testing at Nurburgring!!!!
04-14-2008 | 08:03 PM
#47
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,802
From: Annapolis MD
I cant wait to get home to watch this video...
04-14-2008 | 08:12 PM
#48
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
In the 60's all top line standard performance cars were SS.
There were some special edition order codes like ZR-1, Z06, Z-11, Z-28 and others.
The reasone the Z took over for the SS as a standard performance edition was Chevy did away with the SS for a while in all lines as the fuel prices and lines did not play well with the SS Line.
The Z even went away after it became mostly a sticker package. The sales of the TA proved that a perfromance name could still sell and Chevy jumped back into the game with the SBC Z. SS was pointless at this time due to the fact the engine was a SBC 350 and most but not all SS were well known as BBC. Also the Z28 name was only a Camaro name.
Besides the Z was a Camaro not a Chevy so it would be better to promote it as such.
Fast forward to today. The SS will be the performance standard and the Z will return to what it once was a special order code on a limited edition Camaro.
Having the Z as the standard car is like Ford calling the Shelby a standard Mustang and the GT the GT the $45K coupe.
If the Z is so special you need to make it as it once was the best all around performer with the ledgendary history just like the Shelby is to the Mustang. The best and special car is that one just with in reach not the one that everyone can buy.
This has nothing to do with who has the biggest engine or who has the fastest time in the 1/4 mile. It all has to do with marketing. Chevy today will offewr many SS models with many different lines but none will offer a Z/28 So if you expect anyone to plop down 40 plus grand on a Camaro it had better ber special and the best model. Why would anyone want to pay 40 plus grand for a with the SS name shared with a Cobalt or Trailblazer? All good vehicles but not good enough for the top Camaro.
The key is the Z28 is Identified by all possible buyers as a Top Camaro and only a Camaro for years. GM wants this car to sell to more than just past Camaro owners who split hairs over letters. They want what the to give the General public what they believe is the best or special name.
The bottom line here is most of us should really care less on the name as we are already sold on the car. They could call it an Vince Piggins special for all we care as we are already sold on the car.
Marketing on this car has evolved over the years and will continue to do so yet with this gen. SO let them do what they need to do to sell cars and the rest of us just enjoy the video and years of a great car no matter what the name.
There were some special edition order codes like ZR-1, Z06, Z-11, Z-28 and others.
The reasone the Z took over for the SS as a standard performance edition was Chevy did away with the SS for a while in all lines as the fuel prices and lines did not play well with the SS Line.
The Z even went away after it became mostly a sticker package. The sales of the TA proved that a perfromance name could still sell and Chevy jumped back into the game with the SBC Z. SS was pointless at this time due to the fact the engine was a SBC 350 and most but not all SS were well known as BBC. Also the Z28 name was only a Camaro name.
Besides the Z was a Camaro not a Chevy so it would be better to promote it as such.
Fast forward to today. The SS will be the performance standard and the Z will return to what it once was a special order code on a limited edition Camaro.
Having the Z as the standard car is like Ford calling the Shelby a standard Mustang and the GT the GT the $45K coupe.
If the Z is so special you need to make it as it once was the best all around performer with the ledgendary history just like the Shelby is to the Mustang. The best and special car is that one just with in reach not the one that everyone can buy.
This has nothing to do with who has the biggest engine or who has the fastest time in the 1/4 mile. It all has to do with marketing. Chevy today will offewr many SS models with many different lines but none will offer a Z/28 So if you expect anyone to plop down 40 plus grand on a Camaro it had better ber special and the best model. Why would anyone want to pay 40 plus grand for a with the SS name shared with a Cobalt or Trailblazer? All good vehicles but not good enough for the top Camaro.
The key is the Z28 is Identified by all possible buyers as a Top Camaro and only a Camaro for years. GM wants this car to sell to more than just past Camaro owners who split hairs over letters. They want what the to give the General public what they believe is the best or special name.
The bottom line here is most of us should really care less on the name as we are already sold on the car. They could call it an Vince Piggins special for all we care as we are already sold on the car.
Marketing on this car has evolved over the years and will continue to do so yet with this gen. SO let them do what they need to do to sell cars and the rest of us just enjoy the video and years of a great car no matter what the name.
The truth is no matter the Gen/mission, the Camaro's all-around top model always was the Z28 until the later 4th Gen's lame revisionist marketing and it will be the top model in the 5th Gen once again.....like it always should have been.
Last edited by IZ28; 04-14-2008 at 08:19 PM.
04-14-2008 | 08:27 PM
#49
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
Okay, all...take that old argument to one of the many other threads that are already established about it.
So about the video...
For those who are having a hard time viewing the video, try here:
http://videos.camaroz28.com/video/dd...7e014f5fb9.htm
Edited the first post to include this.
It might be riddled with misinformation, but it sure is nice to see/hear in action.
So about the video...
For those who are having a hard time viewing the video, try here:
http://videos.camaroz28.com/video/dd...7e014f5fb9.htm
Edited the first post to include this.
It might be riddled with misinformation, but it sure is nice to see/hear in action.
04-14-2008 | 08:38 PM
#50
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Time to buckle down on yet another Z28 vs SS match up.
Well I guess performance was dead from the getgo since the Z28 outperformed the SS in just about every single version, except for the mucho expensive, straight line only SS 396 375hp L78. Z28 was still the RACE CAR.
In 1970, who got the 350hp LT1 from teh Corvette? Was it the SS car? noooope, it was the TOP DOG Z28, which stomped mud holes into the now 402 big block cars.
Z28 was not the standard plain V8 car. My 72 is a RS that came with a 307, and last time I checked...thats a V8.
Z28 was not, again, the defacto V8 model. It was the TOP performance Camaro. SS was a luxury trim, Z28 is a race car trim.
Again...LT1 powerd Z28's destroyed SS 350 and 396(402) Camaros, and first gen cars could stay fender to fender with just about every version except for the top dog 396, and even that was close.
Sure, there was a lot of torque in the BBC cars, but that doesnt make it the performance model...it just makes it the brute. The Z28 was the Camaro's race model, not the SS.
That we can agree on, as well as a lot of other Z28 people would too. The problem is that they are making the Z28 turn into an SS, with just a big honkin motor under the hood with a big blower, when it should probably be more along the lines of a LS7 type motor in it.
If I had my way, a direct injected 6.2 making 500hp would be the bees knees for me. But the point stands that the race-ready Camaro should be the Z28.
I have also liked the idea of having TWO kings, the SS for luxury, the Z28 for performance. The SS could get one engine,l the Z28 the other, and exist on the same plane in price and prestege. Just that Z28 would be in race series like SCCA's Speed GT, Rollex Grand Am racing, and perhaps several other racing sereis, while the SS was the basis for Funny Cars and other drag racers.
In 1970, who got the 350hp LT1 from teh Corvette? Was it the SS car? noooope, it was the TOP DOG Z28, which stomped mud holes into the now 402 big block cars.
Z28 was not the standard plain V8 car. My 72 is a RS that came with a 307, and last time I checked...thats a V8.
You guys have just proved the main point why the SS should be the top dawg (I believe the inisders are right and it won't be though); we've had the Z28 as the standard defacto V8 model since the mid 70s on when all we had was the Z28 or IROC-Z28s. Now all of a sudden it's going to the expensive, super z06 style car? Doesn't fit IMO, but whatever.
In the heyday of street straightline dragracing in the musclecar era there is no way the Z28 was seen as the top dawg factory street Camaro. That's dreaming.
My father had a L-78 powered SS ordered new at the very end of the '67 model year, his best friend ended up w/ a 67 or 68 Z28 (before he moved to a bigblock SS car as well). To hear BOTH of them talk there was no comparison for king of the hill on the street...
I certainly don't see a heavier (presumably) SC'd 500+ hp monster as really the true spirit of the original Z28 either.
If I had my way, a direct injected 6.2 making 500hp would be the bees knees for me. But the point stands that the race-ready Camaro should be the Z28.
I have also liked the idea of having TWO kings, the SS for luxury, the Z28 for performance. The SS could get one engine,l the Z28 the other, and exist on the same plane in price and prestege. Just that Z28 would be in race series like SCCA's Speed GT, Rollex Grand Am racing, and perhaps several other racing sereis, while the SS was the basis for Funny Cars and other drag racers.
I think I just crapped my pants!!! That is GODLY, and if the supercharged V8 thing is true, then I just fell in love. That is awesome.
04-14-2008 | 10:32 PM
#53
Registered User
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,947
From: Springfield,OH. U.S.A.
To stay true to brand, the "SS" version needs the Supercharger, like the Cobalt, Monte, and some Impy's.
And would probably make it Top Dog in HP ratings.
My Dad owned the SS/396/325hp he ordered, until '74. He has said many times that the only smallblock cars to even stay close were the HO 327 4spd. cars, and that was only the first 1/8 mile.
He admits tho, to not running a DZ/302 car, which he said he thought was faster than his.
Hardly none of these cars remained stock for long, and with little more than a cam change, the smallblocks fell back badly in drags.
Everything in a BBC is BIG, from intake/exhaust runners to valves, to pistons etc = more airflow....
They also added a little over 200lbs to the nose of the car, compared to a 350.
The '69 Z/28 DZ 302 H.O. was by far the fastest 1st gen as produced, (outside of COPO's)with most everyone estimating more than 400hp, regardless of advertised power, and was much lighter.
And would probably make it Top Dog in HP ratings.
My Dad owned the SS/396/325hp he ordered, until '74. He has said many times that the only smallblock cars to even stay close were the HO 327 4spd. cars, and that was only the first 1/8 mile.
He admits tho, to not running a DZ/302 car, which he said he thought was faster than his.
Hardly none of these cars remained stock for long, and with little more than a cam change, the smallblocks fell back badly in drags.
Everything in a BBC is BIG, from intake/exhaust runners to valves, to pistons etc = more airflow....
They also added a little over 200lbs to the nose of the car, compared to a 350.
The '69 Z/28 DZ 302 H.O. was by far the fastest 1st gen as produced, (outside of COPO's)with most everyone estimating more than 400hp, regardless of advertised power, and was much lighter.
Last edited by 90rocz; 04-15-2008 at 09:36 AM.
04-14-2008 | 11:44 PM
#56
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,011
For what it is worth, my Dad who owned a 69 SS L78 396, said he ate the Z/28's he raced, in a straight line. He also said that that nose heavy beast (SS) wasn't worth a #$%^ in the corners, and watched Z28 tailight's. Funny, even almost 40 years later, he remembers the sound of the DZ revving up to 7k.
04-14-2008 | 11:53 PM
#57
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 243
I'm sure it'll perform great, but it'll be just like the GTO, the things you have to do the remove weight, i really wouldn't want to do, to nice of a car.
Would make a hell of a daily driver though
04-15-2008 | 07:30 AM
#59
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 100
From: Kaiserslautern, Germany
Have you seen the thread with the pictures of it next to other vehicles? I thought it looked big until I saw that thread.