But aren't a lot of the parts suppliers US based? I know the camaro is a long way off... but is it possible if this goes on for a month or more, could the camaro be pushed back further?

 

Anything longer than a week, and GM will begin making money on the deal. Since production is almost a year away, I doubt this will have any serious impacts on Camaro's future.

 

I agree with you about 50%. I owned a 1st gen too, and I can tell you it wasn't just the upright position that made it roomy. The 1st gen didn't have its gas tank in the middle of the car taking away vital cabin space. Having compared it to my 4th gen T/A there simply was no contest: the '68 was bigger in the front seat and the rear and the seats could slide considerably further back/forward.

In the new car I was not saying the seats should be lower. I was saying the seats should be more adjustable so they can go lower and accomodate taller drivers. My Buick has an up-down feature on the seat, why not Camaro?

I agree that the 4th gen was too extreme for the average buyer. Although I don't find it uncomfortable, it is definitely hard to get in and out of without strenuous body contortions. And, though your legs go straight out, I find the seat simply doesn't go far enough back. The LS1 cars are better than the LT1s because they upgraded the seats, but the lack of leg room can be annoying.

 

Price is my main concern even though I just got a '95 Z28 and the possibility of a fifth gen is laughable(had a '94 v6). As people have already pointed out, its a bind: make the pricing truly competitive with the mustang which is the key to sales to the general public, but sacrafice quality with things like the interior especially(the 4th gen plastics are pretty chincy, but still leaps and bounds above the mustang). I want this Camaro to sell because of my loyalty but, like a lot of other people, I'm not sure I want to deal with the consequences a watered down version.

But, I take great solace in the fact that a new base v8 could own some Cobras

 

I don't see why they can't make a front seat with the ability to go as low as you'd like, as well as up to a more normal height.

I personally LOVED the seating position of the 4th Gen. To me it was very comfortable.

I hate sitting upright in a car like I'm sitting at the dinner table. I don't want my 'sporty' car to feel like a family sedan when I sit in it.

 

Thanks, Big Al - I feel welcome already! Appreciate your replies - and I think you are dead-on, just wasnt sure about the price points.

edit: Whats the deal on this "LSA?" So your saying they will all be based on this same 6.2L platform? Thanks.

I still think I'll enjoy a new top-end Camaro more than I would a used Z06. The Z06 is freakin' incredible - but not worth it unless you can just throw money at it all the time.

I will buy that Vette someday, just probably after the "Cam."

Edit2: Wait until early '09? OUCH.......maybe not......

Off-topic: if anyone wants to point out the "top 5" threads in this section for a noob to catch up on for good information on whats coming, feel free to reply or PM me. Thanks.

edit3: seen the FAQ and the release date speculation. Thanks.

 

My Main concerns with the 5th Gen are as follows.
PRICING-The new Camaro will come to the game LATE( but it's better then never and with this I hope GM is financially healthy to sell the camaro's within $250-500 dollars of a comparable mustang.

INTERIOR DESIGN and LAYOUT OF CONTROLS-I do not like the retro theme on the concept, not even the gauges and I hope GM has some other interior ready to go which im sure they have. Id like to be able to throw in an aftermarket cd player also, unless gm can come up with a great head unit with MP3,flsh/drive/ipod capability.

WEIGHT-From what i've been hearing on numorous boards the new Challenger will be a boat as far as weight. As a present SN95 Mustang owner I'am not happy with the size and overall weight of the new S197 stang at all. It handles better, is more ridgid and safer prob. but it's the size of a da&^ bmw 5 series c'mon!! I just hope that the new Camaro tips the scales at least 200lbs lighter then the new Mustang and is slightly shorter/wider. 1994 Mustang-3,077 lbs 1994 Camaro-3,250 lbs
2008 Mustang-3500 lbs

WIDTH-The Camaro concept stance was awesome, hummer wide but awesome none the less. Being a Mustang guy for quite a while, I have always admired all generation Camaros and one thing in particular I love with the 4th gens. is the Low,WIDE stance. My 1994 sn95 looks pretty close now that its lowered to a 4th gens stance. The new "boat" stang even though wider, then mine still looks too dang skinny for the length, height etc... I hope the new Camaro is wider then the new stang.
just for comparison sake- 1994 Mustang-71.8" 1994 Camaro-74.1"
2008 Mustang-74"

HEIGHT-I know im covering all bases here, but it's a camaro board and opinions are looked at on here by a few very important people at GM
So with that I wonder what height the new camaro will roll in with, my 1994 Mustang is 52.9" overall height. 1994 Camaro-51.3" my point is I hope the camaro is no more than 54" high.
2008 Mustang 54"

LENGTH-shorter than the 4th gens. thats all.

SOUND- concerning the v-8's only...I know thats what the aftermarket is for, but one thing the Camaro has never had from the factory was a good tuned sound. You can recognize a Mustang v-8 from a block away instantly. It's part of the character of the car almost like persons tone of voice and I think GM needs to work on this alot with the new Camaro's exhaust note.

Past all that I'm stoked about the new Camaro and hope the UAW doesn't screw anything up for GM. Thanks and best regaurds

 

My '68 definitely had much more room in the rear seat. I'm not so sure about the front though..... it's been a while and the seating position is very different. *shrug*

I'm all for available height adjustment for those who want it. Thing is, the car has already been criticized in this thread for a roof line that is too high. The room to raise the seat has to come from somewhere, can't have it both ways.

Here is where we may have to put down any specific seating desires as too subjective to call.

Every (and I mean every) LS1 owner who has ridden in my car, Camaro and Firebird alike, has commented how much more supportive and comfortable my seats are than theirs. I usually look at them like they're insane since I felt since new that my seats have sucked. I've driven numerous LS1 cars and can't tell a bit of difference in the seats. In fact, I think they all suck. They're all comfortable enough for the posterior but they all lack side support.

They also put your legs into awkward angles that become uncomfortable for longer trips (say anything over two hours). I realize this last one isn't so much a seat a problem as a car problem but still.

I'm not a candy *** (see below) and I'm willing to live with the trade off of discomfort for performance but many others are not. I agree that the car must be more practical and comfortable for the general public if it is to be a sales success.

How did I ultimately fix my desire for a better seat?



Bolted to the floor as low as I could get it (about 1 inch off). No tilt adjustment, no fore / aft adjustment, no height adjustment. Not recommended for the average daily driver but worth it's weight in gold on course.

 

Perhaps you never heard a first gen. Z/28, even the standard exhaust system was nice sounding, the short lived (only available as an option for a short while) chambered exhaust was incredible sounding.
Clyde

 

I agree with you on that and I was going to mention with the exception of the 1st gens, camaros have never had a great sounding factory exhaust.

 

lol. Sorry, I don't mean to laugh, but by all indications, the new Camaro is going to weigh somewhere around 3650-3700. You're expecting 3300?

 

Yep 3300-3400 and no more. 3650-3700 man thats gonna be one he&* of a porker car. How much does the new GTO weigh? The current stang is roughly 3450-3500 give or take and the 2010 Mustang is going on a diet, so once again the Camaro will come to the party heavier than the stang with more power though im assuming, thats if the BOSS 6.2 get's delayed.

Another thing is the new Camaro cabin gonna be heavier and bigger physically because of the need to accomodate not to be blunt but FAT people? No joke my teacher who worked for Ford said a big emphasis on interior dimensions in the Mustang right now ,was due to America's growing people. Sorry and no offense, but if you're over 300 lbs and not in the NFL hit the GYM. Cars cabins shoulden't grow or get taller to accomodate Huge people.

 

Your concerns seem to be the same as mine.. Weight is a BIG one.. but can be changed once I pay it off.


Price gouging and options:
I've been ranting for a while that they'd better make a LOT of options. Not like the GTO where you only have 3 or 4 options. Don't make me buy $3000 worth of extra crap just to get the V8.

 

I am a little surprised at all the "needs to be priced just like the Mustang" comments. The Camaro (V8) will have IRS, potentially 100 more hp and look a whole lot better -- isn't that worth more money?

Sure, the V6, I can see (to a point), but IMHO, price was NEVER the reason the Mustang "won" the sales race. It was more attractive to a greater population -- period. It had a design that was better received, had a better looking interior, was more practical for most people and had enough performance to suit them (hence the greatest # of cars sold used to be V6s), etc.

These days people will pay more for a better car. The Camry/Accords have never been the cheapest option. But, they had great interiors and did their job (reliable transportation) very well. Because of this, more people saw the value in these cars over the cheaper alternatives.

Now, I am not saying it should be a $5k difference, but if Chevy can build a better interior (not hard), put more performance (a given), better styling (looks to be the case), and the same level of practicality -- it will sell better than the Mustang. Even if it is a little more expensive (even $1-2k).

Heck with leasing these days, the monthly payment difference might be $20-$30 per month. Are you guys saying you wouldn't pay that to get a better car simply because the Mustang is cheaper?

I'll admit I am not the majority mindset here, but that would surprise me.

Of course, to me, a Mustang-level interior (with all its misalignment and rattling) might be the only reason I wouldn't buy a Camaro.

 

IRS doesn't mean anything to the average buyer. Mustang's rear suspension is set up well enough that most people won't notice the difference. It takes a special kind of bump to upset a live rear axle, and there isn't a Ford salesperson in the world that will direct a potential buyer to drive down such a road during a test drive.

300hp or 400hp... both are more than anybody really needs in a daily-driven car. The average car buyer is going to see that the Camaro makes 400+ horsepower, notice that they're paying a grand extra for that, decide that 300 is plenty, and then they're going to buy the Mustang.

Better looks are completely subjective, and in general, no, it's not worth a lot more money when both cars have an attractive design.

More attractive? Are you serious? Better interior?




Mustang sold 114,228 copies in 1993 with a base price of $10,860. At $16,779, Camaro sold 53,215 the same year, including Firebird. Admittedly, that's a much bigger price difference than we're discussing here, but I think you see the point.

Please elaborate on how Mustangs are more practical than Camaros.

NO! I'm saying people in general won't. People who really care about performance will absolutely be willing to pay a few extra dollars. I'm talking about the general populace, which outnumbers automotive performance enthusiasts 100 to 1.