I am in southeast Pa, and the 4th gens don't seem to carry the mullet stigma at all. All the guys in college that are into cars either drive Civcs/Integras/DSMs, Fox Body/SN95 Mustangs, or 4th gen F-Bodies. I here them roaring by my friends apartment constantly (who lives near a nearby campus), even in the winter.

 

very very perceptive.....profound. You put in words what I've been thinking for quite some time.

 

Yeah I couldent agree more.

I get that crap from my uncle all the time.

When he was looking for his new car I tried to get him to go look at the new caddy's but he just had his mind set on a BMW,

Oh you know where I'm goign with this.....

 

when some of people think of 'Camaro' the image below comes into their mind.



.
.
.
.
.
.
I'm sure Red Planet and the gang will do a fine job reinventing the Camaro and erasing those bad preceptions with the new Camaro Concept!!!

.
.
.
.

 

...and it even spreads to the Corvette as well. Nevermind that the C5 won award after award - besting Porsche in nearly all reviews (C6 trounced even harder on the competition). Nevermind that C5/6 has dominated, literally, the racing scene. Nevermind that they continue to break records. And nevermind that C5/6 costs a fraction of the competition. They are still looked down upon as WT(white trash).

Oh, and nevermind that they simply look better. And of course nevermind that a Vette retains its value like no other car.

None of the above matters. What matters is that the Vette is American made - which is the sole trump card for those who scoff and scorn.

It has become "cool" to mock, criticize and condemn that which is distinctly American...and it is Americans that are doing the criticizing!!

The message is everywhere - sometimes subtle, sometimes blatantly overt: Americana, American culture is crap. And if you like Americana, you should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself. You are less than, intellectually.

It is the exact same argument as: "If you criticize the President, then you are unpatriotic". This side of the argument says: "If you like Americana, then you are stupid".

Yikes, I didn't mean to get political here, and I am trying not to claim sides. Therefore, hopefully avoiding controversy. Bottom line is, image portrayal is such an important factor, and one in which I will be eager to see how it is played out.

I could care less what they think. I'll take a loud, obnoxious, sexy muscle car anyday. Yeah, the Germans can build a good car...but its just not the same as sitting behind the wheel of a rumbling V8.

greg

p.s. Thanks for the kind words

p.p.s. Its true about the scoffs. To this day, I get ugly looks from BMW and Porsche drivers. It has become quite funny. Twice now, I've even had them call me out to race, so they could show me a lesson. Both times, I wiped the road with them.

 

Greg you are making very valid points. I think it is actually part of a larger anti-american prejudice from the liberal inteligentsia.

The very same people that are always out there defending the unions and labor groups and the "little people" flat out refuse to be caught dead in an American made car.

Pickups and muscle cars are seen as very "Red state" and they are vehicles for the mass unwashed. I don't want to turn this into a political discussion at all but I believe there is a VERY strong correlation between yuppie liberal elitism and the redneck stigma that is placed on entire brands like Chevrolet.

They all buy Accords and Volvos because they'd get laughed out of parties by their friends if they showed up in an Impala or some other such "implement" of the working class schleps that are "brainwashed" into voting a certain way.

This is of course not true for rural, God-fearing blue dog Democrat types or even actual union members, but the "ruling class" northeastern elitist types certainly see things this way.

IMO we don't need them to be successful, so screw the stereotypes. These folks don't even understand the concept, much less the allure, of the muscle car as a uniquely American thing. They will always find anemic, underpowered Euro-stuff more in line with their own worldviews. S

Maybe a marketing approach that embraces the Camaro's past image, without going too far, is worth exploring.

Start out with Jeff Foxworthy making some red neck Camaro Joke at a night club....maybe a well dressed young professional man leaves, goes and gets into his new 2009 Camaro, and you get a full body shot plus the dash/interior shot, and the tagline is something like "The Camaro is all grown up....experience the new definition of American Muscle"

 

I happen to be in an age and professional demographic where my taste for American cars is...let's say, scrutinized.

How do you turn this around? Not overnight, that's for sure. Well, maybe I'll take that back, the 300 sure had an instant impact.

It's gonna take undeniably exciting, attention getting, suck the oxygen out of the room, products....one after the other, for a sustained period of time...to change attitudes. Nothing else really matters much.

 

Well, seeing as how I routinely work 5 days a week with these same "Northeast Elitists," I'd like to shed some light on the above set of statements...

1) Not all Chevys are bad. Chevy CARS are bad. SUVs? Just on this floor alone, one guy has a Maxima GLE while his wife "loves" her Envoy. Another was whining to me about the airbag light being on in his new 330i for a week, while his wife's '01 Suburban "with 114k drives like new." There's a few other people here who drive European imports, while the wife has a domestic SUV...so don't assume the professional snobs look down on ALL domestics.

2) The Accord comment is pretty accurate.

3) These people have nothing to do with a new Camaro anyway...they wouldn't even be close to the target market. None of these guys have Mustangs, or 350Zs either.

4) Us blue states love our pickups Remember, its cold up here, and 4x4s go a long way to making MA roads more manageable in the winter...

5) Want to win back some liberals? Make a car that stands out as a quality product. The new Impala might, but its bland. The G6 might have had a chance if the marketing for it was better...I mean, all of Pontiacs new ads are really lame. Some may have read in another thread that I've seen only one new Charger, yet supposedly they sell the same amount as a 300? Well, I can tell you its hard to go a day without seeing a 300 around here...they're everywhere. Charger is decidedly lower-scale, for similar $$$. The 300 has transcended the "American four door syndrome" very nicely around here.

6) Oh yeah, ads that would play up the value of an Impala compared to a Camry would go A LONG WAY towards helping the image...but we don't see any of those, do we?

 

You know, I have to completely agree... very insightful...

We refer to this around here as "uneducated American elitism"...

And it does seem to fall in line with the red state/blue state concept...

I'm hoping GM tactfully puts these ideas to rest as best they can, for after January 9th they will finally have a great opportunity to "shift gears" in the arena of public perception... and the asphalt!!!

 

The Accord/Volvo statement couldn't have been said any better.

So its clear that the Camaro isn't going to solve the ideological divide...however, the question is how to work around it. Someone above made a good comment along the lines of the solution not being an overnight matter. I think the best we can hope for is that the Camaro becomes an addition to a growing list of quality American vehicles. It might take a full generation to overcome the negative stigma.

 

With the pressure to lower the cost/unit of Labor, they should invest more into the materials going into new cars. I've seen many good ideas from GM over the years get bad P/R because the materials gave out prematurely.(door pulls, cup holders, 2.8L cranks, interiors, Quad-4 head gaskets....)
Take Chrysler, they've had an infamous "piston slap" for years(I 4's),...the rings get stuck in the lands and the piston rocks...
It would have cost them nearly nothing to fix, yet beancounters figured the cost was too high...But what is it costing them in reputation.??

Add to the stigma's above, the "Used Car stigma". If you buy a car more than 4 or so years old, people kinda look down their nose at you. Not considering the popularity of the model, like IROC's.

 

To me?

A car that makes people, at least temporarily, regret getting a friendlier, more upright, more plebian car. aka a Camry at the equiv price, or a dime a dozen Mustang.

A car that might not be right for everyone, but makes others wish they weren't so shackled to getting a more pratical car instead.

 

all very interesting insights.

The whole idea of 'image' , the acceptability of 'white trash' comments....the bashing of men, and the elitist attitude that seems to be infiltrating this country really bothers me.

I was driving to work this morning at dark o'clock thru the snow...listening to the radio....and there was all kind of conversation about Detroit Lions fans planning to show up at the game this weekend wearing Orange......showing support for the other team.

How sick.

Look....I understand that people are upset that the Lions can't seem to do much right.....but where in the world is the loyalty for the home team? It's easy to be a 'fan' when the team wins....but to me, a TRUE fan is the one that sticks by the team thru thick or thin. The one that sticks around only when the team is winning is a fraud to my way of thinking.

Now....you may say "well....if the team sucks, I'm gone." To you, I'd say 'well, I'm glad you're not my spouse/bro/sis/best friend........because I can't imagine what would happen when something tragic perhaps befelled me.

See........I see this in a larger sense that the fabric of our society is unraveling....no sense of loyalty....no sense of doing the right thing to keep the local or national economy going. ....and that concerns me greatly. I truly believe that there are people out there.....indeed, even on this and other sites that would celebrate albeit perhaps quietly if GM or Ford went into bankruptcy tomorrow. I just don't understand that kind of thinking. I don't expect blind loyalty, but it seems that loyalty is an 'old fashioned charm' that has gone the way of the Typewriter, the vinyl record, etc.

I'm not saying that you have to buy GM. But I would say that I gotta think that with all the choices that GM/Ford/DCX have, the excuse that someone has to buy foreign is just an excuse for something deeper. Bland design? Please....look at the best selling cars out there...few of them have trend setting style.......and I don't tell me about the success of some european cars.....the volume isn't there. I really don't want to knock Chrysler...and this isn't meant as a knock...but the Impala last month outsold the entire Dodge passenger car lineup!


Now..I'm sure I'm gonna get blasted on this one.......so be it.

 

i think you're right Red. society today is at a point where the only thing that seems to matter is trying to have a sense of individualism while making you conform to the crowd. i see it in my generation, 26, all the time. i think the attention span of my generation is about a week, tops! it bothers me sometimes to think that people around my age group who will be running the country one day are so fascinated with reality TV and the flavor of the week that imagination seems to be lacking.......

 

I guess the attention span doesn't surprise me.

You've been raised to see every imaginable crisis solved in a one hour series or mini-series.

Good example is World War Two versus the Middle east wars. Look at the difference in terms of length. If the war isn't solved in 3 months, people are frothing at the mouth.

Another example: Bankruptcies are common-place today. One time it was seen as a huge embarrassment. Not anymore! And it's no wonder that so many are in trouble financially. Everyone (well.....not everyone..) wants the standard of living that "Mom and Dad" have........but they forget that it took "mom and dad" 30 years to get to where they are. (What am I talking about???? in a very large percentage, it isn't "mom and dad" anymore, due to the Divorce rate.......(again, something that one time was relatively taboo)