Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
#46
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by R377
Camaro will have a stiffer suspension than CTS (bushings, spring rates, anti-roll bars) and so shouldn't suffer wheel hop to the same degree. But as noted above, it's possible for pretty much any suspension design to allow wheel hop. I'm sure GM's engineers are well aware of the intended use of Camaros and will do everything in their power to make sure it can launch as smoothly as possible at the dragstrip.
I'm not worried too much about the performance versions. Because of the price and insurence, the buyers of those will naturally tend to be older, more mature, and will tend to be less abusive than buyers of the V6 models. Plus I'm sure there will be different suspension tuning to take some wheelhop out.
But it still is desturbing that wheelhop was a major issue the car rags pointed out in early CTSv test on pre-production cars, and here we are on the 3rd year and it's still a major issue. GM fell asleep on this one or it's something that can't be cured.
What? A CTSv owner is going to buy a 400 horsepower, manual transmission car and never do a burnout??
#47
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by Ron78Z&01SS
I bought aftermarket poly LCA's but sold the SS before I got around to installing them.
I could detect no difference in my car's tendency to wheel hop with the stock LCAs and 100K mile bushings or huge brand new poly / spherical bearing LCAs.
The shorter Spohn torque arm DID help though for reasons already stated (it moves the instant center). I had to remove it when I started autocrossing since it would bind something fierce over uneven surfaces. Yes, a rod end mount could and did help but it would still go into brake hop far sooner than my current stock length Random Tech arm (due to the relocated instant center).
I honestly have extremely little hop of either kind now using 150 lb rear springs, Koni SAs and stock LCAs with Moog (think 1LE) bushings. I certainly have FAR, FAR, FAR less wheel hop than I did when stock. This is all despite the fact that my antisquat is pretty much shot to hell since the car is lowered without relo brackets (not legal in Street Prepared). Not really a big deal for me since I gain roll understeer with the LCAs set at such an angle. I only launch once per run but I must turn 15 - 25 times.
As has been stated, proper geometery is the main problem here with either type of or suspension. Shocks, springs, and bushings can either exacerbate or help the situation.
#49
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
I never experienced it either in my '97. Be it stock at 285hp or its current form of close to 450hp.
If you have a live axle car wheel hopping that bad replace the rear shocks. There is a real good chance one of them might be bad too.
If you have a live axle car wheel hopping that bad replace the rear shocks. There is a real good chance one of them might be bad too.
#50
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by graham
If you have a live axle car wheel hopping that bad replace the rear shocks. There is a real good chance one of them might be bad too.
#51
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by Chewbacca
Oops, I have to add that my rearview mirror removal hop was experienced using brand new (but still worthless crap) factory Decarbons.
#52
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by guionM
I'm not worried too much about the performance versions. Because of the price and insurence, the buyers of those will naturally tend to be older, more mature, and will tend to be less abusive than buyers of the V6 models. Plus I'm sure there will be different suspension tuning to take some wheelhop out.
#53
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by graham
The new shocks shouldve controlled the spring just fine.
Funny thing is, the truck guys with their Bilstein package complain about the same thing.... lack of wheel / body control. Sure they're Bilsteins but the valving is still specified by GM.
Most every GM car or truck, performance or otherwise, just doesn't seem to have enough damping speced into the shocks. Of course, the perfect shock won't be able to completely cover poor geometry but perfect geometry will still be a mess to drive with crappy shocks and springs.
Better damping does not have to equal a harsh ride. Look at the BMWs. They have excellent control of body motions but still ride quite nicely. There's no voodoo or black magic there. It's just shock / strut valving, plain and simple.
My car was more responsive and actually rode better with the revalved Bilsteins on stock springs. Much more pleasant to drive.
A drive in my car today would be a poor example of sheer ride quality as I have about doubled the front spring rate and increased the rear by 50%. However, it is not objectionable at all (when not trailering it I'll still drive it 2+ hours to an event) with the Konis properly set. It's firm, sure, but even my wife doesn't complain about the ride.
Last edited by Chewbacca; 06-10-2006 at 02:45 PM.
#54
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Too bad you can't fix it with a $40 set of traction bars.
#56
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by guionM
That's intresting.
I had my '97 Z28 Camaro for about 7 years, and in all the burn outs, autocross, and every road condition imaginable, I've never experienced wheelhop.... "bad" or otherwise.
I had my '97 Z28 Camaro for about 7 years, and in all the burn outs, autocross, and every road condition imaginable, I've never experienced wheelhop.... "bad" or otherwise.
My SS had more power than my 95 had and my 96 has. My SS is the only one I had with SFC's and had wider tires than the other two.
............who knows
#57
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Could there also be some issues with the limited slip, loading and unloading from tire to tire??
I'm betting tho, that the rear squatts pretty bad, instead of lifting slightly, indicating some rear geometry tweaking needed.
I haven't got test drive one yet, tho..
I'm betting tho, that the rear squatts pretty bad, instead of lifting slightly, indicating some rear geometry tweaking needed.
I haven't got test drive one yet, tho..
#58
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by 90rocz
Could there also be some issues with the limited slip, loading and unloading from tire to tire??
#59
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
Originally Posted by jg95z28
Exactly. However my point is that even live axles have wheelhop issues.
Personally I'd rather see GM spend the time and money to engineer a solid IRS set-up. I want my next Camaro to handle like its on rails more than I want it to pull hard in a straight line.
#60
Re: Wheelhop must be ERADICATED in the 5th gen!
In the ECM there is a "wheel hop" "feature" of sorts.
In the Solstice it was said that the Solstice did not feature this, however everything I've known suggests that it does.
My Solstice has "wheel hop" and others do as well. Many have reported after an ECM "retune" it eliminates the "hop" one poster on SolsticeForum.com does this for a living and discovered the "wheel hop" on his own ECM which was disputed by a few GM people on the board from what I remember.
Wheel hop is garbage and takes away from the true feeling of a RWD car.
**EDIT**
On second thought......I'm not sure if it was discussed as "wheel hop" or some sort of limited slip programming in the ECM when the vehicle noticed it was losing traction.
At anyrate, its along the same lines.
I have no problem doing a burn out in the Solstice (just ask Charlie and Guy) but it does not seem to hold for too long at all.
In the Solstice it was said that the Solstice did not feature this, however everything I've known suggests that it does.
My Solstice has "wheel hop" and others do as well. Many have reported after an ECM "retune" it eliminates the "hop" one poster on SolsticeForum.com does this for a living and discovered the "wheel hop" on his own ECM which was disputed by a few GM people on the board from what I remember.
Wheel hop is garbage and takes away from the true feeling of a RWD car.
**EDIT**
On second thought......I'm not sure if it was discussed as "wheel hop" or some sort of limited slip programming in the ECM when the vehicle noticed it was losing traction.
At anyrate, its along the same lines.
I have no problem doing a burn out in the Solstice (just ask Charlie and Guy) but it does not seem to hold for too long at all.
Last edited by Josh452; 06-11-2006 at 01:18 AM.