2011 camaro
04-08-2010 | 10:38 PM
#46
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 604
From: Elgin,SC
But I will go ahead and post what Fbodyfather said. I hate to do it because if he posts here I don't want to put words in his mouth. But this was Fbodyfathers response to some of the people upset about the announcement:
Some perspectives --
First - -the Camaro team isn't "resting on their laurels" -- more about that in a minute....
Many of you have heard me say "when you change anything on a Camaro or Corvette -- 50% love it and 50% hate it -- and eventually most of those who hate it will change their minds.
HUD -- Our disciples were very specific that we needed this in the new Camaro. Moreover, reviewing the posts on this site will show that many of the very people on this site feel it's important......and so we listened.
No - it's not a 'free-flow' option - and there's a reason - build complexity. And yes, I can see some of you with smoke coming out your ears -- but the fact is that we have to sometimes make hard decisions - and this was one of them. From a personal perspective? I remember driving to the NCM in a caravan with one of the very first 1998 C5s with HUD.....when we got near Louisville, we ran into a cloud burst that seemed to go on forever -- and the HUD allowed me to keep my eyes on the road while also monitoring systems in the car.........I love HUD - -not everyone will - but I think most will.
Synergy Green -- do a search for the subject and you'll see that most were begging us to offer it. It's a VERY polarizing color......and frankly, we weren't sure what the reaction would be once people actually saw it in person -- not just from pictures The reality is that people are lovin' it. It's not everyone's cup of tea - but from my experience standing near a Synergy Green Camaro in many different autoshows -- the reaction is extremely positive. Now - that said -in my opinion, it won't be a 15% runner......but for those who love the color - you can now get one in an LS - an LT or an SS - AND you can get the LT or the SS with RS. You asked: we delivered.
Engines --
Let's not forget-- as many people have mentioned before this post - that the car is still in its first year. Yes - the competition isn't sitting still.......
BUT..........................
............don't lose sight of the fact that the Mustang is not only Ford's "Camaro" - it's also their "Corvette" --
Put another way - we COULD drop the Corvette and concentrate on Camaro only -- and if we did, America (and Canada) should take the entire team out behind the woodshed and shoot us!
Arguably, we're coming out of the worst two years that GM has ever had...not everything we wanted to happen happened because of that........but to assume we're 'done' with Camaro - well -- trust me - we aren't! There are many things being worked on for the future.......(we ARE listening.....) But some things don't happen overnight -especially when you are working on a new Corvette..... (and I can't talk about it -- so don't ask....)
So -- if you're a "Camaro-only" enthusiast - you might be disappointed. If, however, you are a "Chevy" enthusiast - you know that our performance cars now start out at 312hp -- and go up way past 600hp in the mighty ZR1 - and there are lots of choices from the bottom to the top........
LS - LT -- RS -- SS -- Corvette -- GrandSport -- Carbon - Z06 -- ZR1 --
......not a bad lineup, my friends........and yet we have many more 'tricks up our sleeves' --
Thanks for listening.......
........thanks for your passion.........
...............thanks for your enthusiasm --
.............and once again: thank you for 'keepin' the faith'
I hope to see a lot of you at Camaro5Fest................
Drive safe -- and put those safety belts on!
First - -the Camaro team isn't "resting on their laurels" -- more about that in a minute....
Many of you have heard me say "when you change anything on a Camaro or Corvette -- 50% love it and 50% hate it -- and eventually most of those who hate it will change their minds.
HUD -- Our disciples were very specific that we needed this in the new Camaro. Moreover, reviewing the posts on this site will show that many of the very people on this site feel it's important......and so we listened.
No - it's not a 'free-flow' option - and there's a reason - build complexity. And yes, I can see some of you with smoke coming out your ears -- but the fact is that we have to sometimes make hard decisions - and this was one of them. From a personal perspective? I remember driving to the NCM in a caravan with one of the very first 1998 C5s with HUD.....when we got near Louisville, we ran into a cloud burst that seemed to go on forever -- and the HUD allowed me to keep my eyes on the road while also monitoring systems in the car.........I love HUD - -not everyone will - but I think most will.
Synergy Green -- do a search for the subject and you'll see that most were begging us to offer it. It's a VERY polarizing color......and frankly, we weren't sure what the reaction would be once people actually saw it in person -- not just from pictures The reality is that people are lovin' it. It's not everyone's cup of tea - but from my experience standing near a Synergy Green Camaro in many different autoshows -- the reaction is extremely positive. Now - that said -in my opinion, it won't be a 15% runner......but for those who love the color - you can now get one in an LS - an LT or an SS - AND you can get the LT or the SS with RS. You asked: we delivered.
Engines --
Let's not forget-- as many people have mentioned before this post - that the car is still in its first year. Yes - the competition isn't sitting still.......
BUT..........................
............don't lose sight of the fact that the Mustang is not only Ford's "Camaro" - it's also their "Corvette" --
Put another way - we COULD drop the Corvette and concentrate on Camaro only -- and if we did, America (and Canada) should take the entire team out behind the woodshed and shoot us!
Arguably, we're coming out of the worst two years that GM has ever had...not everything we wanted to happen happened because of that........but to assume we're 'done' with Camaro - well -- trust me - we aren't! There are many things being worked on for the future.......(we ARE listening.....) But some things don't happen overnight -especially when you are working on a new Corvette..... (and I can't talk about it -- so don't ask....)
So -- if you're a "Camaro-only" enthusiast - you might be disappointed. If, however, you are a "Chevy" enthusiast - you know that our performance cars now start out at 312hp -- and go up way past 600hp in the mighty ZR1 - and there are lots of choices from the bottom to the top........
LS - LT -- RS -- SS -- Corvette -- GrandSport -- Carbon - Z06 -- ZR1 --
......not a bad lineup, my friends........and yet we have many more 'tricks up our sleeves' --
Thanks for listening.......
........thanks for your passion.........
...............thanks for your enthusiasm --
.............and once again: thank you for 'keepin' the faith'
I hope to see a lot of you at Camaro5Fest................
Drive safe -- and put those safety belts on!
04-09-2010 | 08:57 AM
#47
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
From: Toronto,Canada
I know it's hard to believe but there are millions of people in North America that wont buy a FORD....guys...the world is not falling cause the the new Stang is .3 seconds faster to somewhere....there are some who will buy the latest and the fastest but the package is what sells....what is in a package ??
Styling....colors...fit and finish...warranty....pricing....features...perform ance....feel...the plant they are built in(one of the best in the world) etc.. etc... .....and how good the consumer feels about the company backing it....Ford is doing a great job no doubt but there are just as many reasons not to buy a Stang as to buy one so for the millions of GM fans like me it aint even a choice....besides that I always like taking the prettiest gal home from a party....
I would be willing to take a bet they will build another 100,000 or close to it this year...what is wrong with that?
Styling....colors...fit and finish...warranty....pricing....features...perform ance....feel...the plant they are built in(one of the best in the world) etc.. etc... .....and how good the consumer feels about the company backing it....Ford is doing a great job no doubt but there are just as many reasons not to buy a Stang as to buy one so for the millions of GM fans like me it aint even a choice....besides that I always like taking the prettiest gal home from a party....
I would be willing to take a bet they will build another 100,000 or close to it this year...what is wrong with that?
04-09-2010 | 09:17 AM
#48
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,497
From: Okemos, MI
Perhaps being almost as fast, almost as nice, and almost as expensive is a good thing for Camaro sales.
04-09-2010 | 09:33 AM
#49
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
From: Toronto,Canada
virtually as fast...MUCH nicer(IMHO)....similar price...better resale(Check black book blue book or any auction in the land)...better warranty(just the facts)...better record of plant where it is built(just the facts).....more features that really count (IRS...etc..)...just my opinion...
04-09-2010 | 09:18 PM
#50
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 545
From: Tampa
I think you have to look at this from a practicality standpoint. We didn't know much about the new stangs till a month ago, although I am sure GM knew more and faster than us. But this didn't leave GM to many options especially with a car that is just 13 months old.
For the people that wanted gearing and suspension tweaks their might be another announcement. Although I am leaning more and more against that. Mainly because you have to realize that GM needs to research, develop, test, certify, and implement these things while worrying about warrantying them. This takes a lot of time and money. It is not just simply slap on some parts and go. Also you have to realize Ford didn't just slap the track pack together. They took 5 years of knowledge and racing on their chassis to figure out what would practically work on a production car. I am sure GM will get this done faster.
You also have to take into the fact that GM just had a hell of a bad last 2 years. They are picking themselves up right now, so to say.
Give the general some time. I am sure he will respond for the Camaro fans. It just might not be this year. And the Camaro has been an amazing success. I am sure it still sells well after the new Mustangs hit the street.
And the mags are heralding the new stangs now because they are the new kids on the block. Much the same way they did the Camaro last year. The mustang still sold well through all that. The mustang has sold well through many years of being considerably slower than the camaro.
And to cap it off we will not let GM fail. If GM fails the whole auto industry comes down, including Ford.
For the people that wanted gearing and suspension tweaks their might be another announcement. Although I am leaning more and more against that. Mainly because you have to realize that GM needs to research, develop, test, certify, and implement these things while worrying about warrantying them. This takes a lot of time and money. It is not just simply slap on some parts and go. Also you have to realize Ford didn't just slap the track pack together. They took 5 years of knowledge and racing on their chassis to figure out what would practically work on a production car. I am sure GM will get this done faster.
You also have to take into the fact that GM just had a hell of a bad last 2 years. They are picking themselves up right now, so to say.
Give the general some time. I am sure he will respond for the Camaro fans. It just might not be this year. And the Camaro has been an amazing success. I am sure it still sells well after the new Mustangs hit the street.
And the mags are heralding the new stangs now because they are the new kids on the block. Much the same way they did the Camaro last year. The mustang still sold well through all that. The mustang has sold well through many years of being considerably slower than the camaro.
And to cap it off we will not let GM fail. If GM fails the whole auto industry comes down, including Ford.
while certainly much sexier than mustang, the 5th gen took far too long to come to life and when it did it was overweight and has a very controversial and often criticized interior.
gm needs to step very carefully here and keep their fingers on the pulse of and opinions of consumers. 4.5 billion in losses over the last 6 months while ford is profitable. also, camaro is the only high-octane sales star gm has in it's arsenal now. what are they doing to keep revamped mustangs away from stealing many golden eggs from its goose that lays the golden egg? this is the information age and word is spreading about ford's good graces and multiple car star lineup.
while i hear your point about giving the general some time i have to say to the general: where did you place the passions and allegiance of your tens of thousands of loyal camaro and firebird enthusiasts by killing the line in 2002 in favor of suv design and engineering. where did the suv buyers go when gas hit $4.00 in 2008??? over to toyota, hyundai, honda and ford in rav4, escape, and crv crossovers.
now it's 2010 and i get the feeling of deja-vu again with gm slaughtering pontiac and the fantastic g8 just after i came back to gm from nissan, here they go axing some of their best cars from the u.s. market again.
while it's nice to say "we" won't allow gm to fail that is clearly not the case in reality. "we" had no ability to keep gm afloat last year had it not been for government intervention.
Last edited by foxbat; 04-09-2010 at 09:20 PM.
04-09-2010 | 09:32 PM
#51
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 545
From: Tampa
For basically all of the 90's, the Camaro was clearly the better car, and it had a slightly higher price tag to show for it. Magazine reviews, performance stats, etc. all backed this up. During that same period, it was the Mustang that enjoyed superior sales stats.
Perhaps being almost as fast, almost as nice, and almost as expensive is a good thing for Camaro sales.
Perhaps being almost as fast, almost as nice, and almost as expensive is a good thing for Camaro sales.
fast forward to 2010: camaro is now slightly slower, ford still has better critical acclaim for it's interiors and ergonomics, mustangs are still lighter and smaller, mustangs are slightly less expensive, and magazine reviewers are comparing the sound, smoothness and fury of new 5.0 to engines found in maseratis!
in most (but not all aspects) the objective case for ultimate pony car is turning in ford's favor.
04-10-2010 | 05:05 PM
#53
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 545
From: Tampa
that's exactly my point: 'we' taxpayers and the public in general had absolutely no ability to save GM last year even with employee pricing and other incentives. had it not been for govt intervention (which is not very likely to happen again) gm would not be what it is today.
04-10-2010 | 05:52 PM
#55
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,497
From: Okemos, MI
I'll be honest:
I'm glad Synergy Green is available across the lineup now (a surprise), and HUD is a great addition (we've known this was coming for over a year).
The V6 horsepower bump is meaningless outside of marketing -- since they didn't actually change the engine (just had it recertified), that means performance is going to be identical. It's better news for 2010 V6 owners, who get a free 8hp bump.
2010 Mustang GT w/ Track Pack kicked Camaro's *** in everything but acceleration (and exterior styling for some). Now Ford has upped the horsepower so that the cars are basically a dead heat in the straights, and the Track Pack suspension is standard on the 2011, even on the V6. I was really hoping to see some suspension updates on the 2011 Camaro to level the playing field a bit. Not all of us can afford a new Camaro and a Pedders kit to fix the steering/handling.
Overall, I'm a touch underwhelmed by the 2011 updates, but I understand that GM is still working their way out of their financial hole. So, I guess all I can say is that I hope there's something more significant in store (Z28?
) for 2012.
I'm glad Synergy Green is available across the lineup now (a surprise), and HUD is a great addition (we've known this was coming for over a year).
The V6 horsepower bump is meaningless outside of marketing -- since they didn't actually change the engine (just had it recertified), that means performance is going to be identical. It's better news for 2010 V6 owners, who get a free 8hp bump.
2010 Mustang GT w/ Track Pack kicked Camaro's *** in everything but acceleration (and exterior styling for some). Now Ford has upped the horsepower so that the cars are basically a dead heat in the straights, and the Track Pack suspension is standard on the 2011, even on the V6. I was really hoping to see some suspension updates on the 2011 Camaro to level the playing field a bit. Not all of us can afford a new Camaro and a Pedders kit to fix the steering/handling.
Overall, I'm a touch underwhelmed by the 2011 updates, but I understand that GM is still working their way out of their financial hole. So, I guess all I can say is that I hope there's something more significant in store (Z28?
) for 2012.
04-10-2010 | 06:58 PM
#56
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 184
While the 2011 V6 Camaro will be rated at 312hp. Chevy claims that the 2010 v6 Camaro was slightly underrated. And the 2011 V6 will reflect the more realistic hp figures. So the actual performance numbers and fuel economy aren't likely to change much - unless Chevy also includes some weight reduction & a track package of some kind.
The LS3 Camaro SS according to Chevy & Ford's figures is rated at 14 more hp the 2011 Mustang GT. While actual performance appear to be very close.
The LS3 Camaro SS according to Chevy & Ford's figures is rated at 14 more hp the 2011 Mustang GT. While actual performance appear to be very close.
04-11-2010 | 06:22 PM
#57
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3
I'll be honest:
I'm glad Synergy Green is available across the lineup now (a surprise), and HUD is a great addition (we've known this was coming for over a year).
The V6 horsepower bump is meaningless outside of marketing -- since they didn't actually change the engine (just had it recertified), that means performance is going to be identical. It's better news for 2010 V6 owners, who get a free 8hp bump.
2010 Mustang GT w/ Track Pack kicked Camaro's *** in everything but acceleration (and exterior styling for some). Now Ford has upped the horsepower so that the cars are basically a dead heat in the straights, and the Track Pack suspension is standard on the 2011, even on the V6. I was really hoping to see some suspension updates on the 2011 Camaro to level the playing field a bit. Not all of us can afford a new Camaro and a Pedders kit to fix the steering/handling.
Overall, I'm a touch underwhelmed by the 2011 updates, but I understand that GM is still working their way out of their financial hole. So, I guess all I can say is that I hope there's something more significant in store (Z28?) for 2012.
I'm glad Synergy Green is available across the lineup now (a surprise), and HUD is a great addition (we've known this was coming for over a year).
The V6 horsepower bump is meaningless outside of marketing -- since they didn't actually change the engine (just had it recertified), that means performance is going to be identical. It's better news for 2010 V6 owners, who get a free 8hp bump.
2010 Mustang GT w/ Track Pack kicked Camaro's *** in everything but acceleration (and exterior styling for some). Now Ford has upped the horsepower so that the cars are basically a dead heat in the straights, and the Track Pack suspension is standard on the 2011, even on the V6. I was really hoping to see some suspension updates on the 2011 Camaro to level the playing field a bit. Not all of us can afford a new Camaro and a Pedders kit to fix the steering/handling.
Overall, I'm a touch underwhelmed by the 2011 updates, but I understand that GM is still working their way out of their financial hole. So, I guess all I can say is that I hope there's something more significant in store (Z28?
) for 2012.
04-12-2010 | 10:46 AM
#59
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 214
From: Toronto,Canada
The "only" high octane sales star in its arsenal FOXBAT ??
ummmmm....actually...NO....
Equinox/Terrain is doing brisk business....Malibu is just fine and getting lots of improvements fast...next few months...Trucks are fine...Cruze is coming...should be a strong entry in small car game...Camaro continues it's march up the charts, ATS (small Caddie) should be a seller next year in the near luxury segment and Rendez Vous and Lacrosse are just plain great products so I dont know what you are reading but I go by the Ford plant in Oakville, Ontario every day and there are THOUSANDS od Edges and MKZ's sitting there unsold for months and Taurus aint setting the world on fire....Ford Dealers have loads of 2010 Mustangs which will be dumped unceremoniously in next 60-90 days at below cost or with massive cash incentives setting up a habit of very low resales on new mustangs ...so before making blanket statements about the state of sales in the car industry you might want to do a fact check....IMHO.
ummmmm....actually...NO....
Equinox/Terrain is doing brisk business....Malibu is just fine and getting lots of improvements fast...next few months...Trucks are fine...Cruze is coming...should be a strong entry in small car game...Camaro continues it's march up the charts, ATS (small Caddie) should be a seller next year in the near luxury segment and Rendez Vous and Lacrosse are just plain great products so I dont know what you are reading but I go by the Ford plant in Oakville, Ontario every day and there are THOUSANDS od Edges and MKZ's sitting there unsold for months and Taurus aint setting the world on fire....Ford Dealers have loads of 2010 Mustangs which will be dumped unceremoniously in next 60-90 days at below cost or with massive cash incentives setting up a habit of very low resales on new mustangs ...so before making blanket statements about the state of sales in the car industry you might want to do a fact check....IMHO.
04-12-2010 | 06:23 PM
#60
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 184
What gets me is the people talking about that because the base Mustang may out perform the base Camaro - that is automatically going to hurt the Camaro sales. Which is a bit nieve IMO.
Here's why - there also always been quite a bit of brand loyality in the pony car wars. While there also way some individuals that have soft brand loyality and can fairly easily be swayed from Chevy (GM) to Ford. I would guess that at least 60-75% of pony car ales are those that are incredible loyal to one or the other - and therefor would never consider switching to the other.
Here's why - there also always been quite a bit of brand loyality in the pony car wars. While there also way some individuals that have soft brand loyality and can fairly easily be swayed from Chevy (GM) to Ford. I would guess that at least 60-75% of pony car ales are those that are incredible loyal to one or the other - and therefor would never consider switching to the other.