DevilsAddvocate

Shorter Stroke does NOT mean lighter rotating assembly. First of all the faster the thing spins the stronger the rotating assembly must be meaning more material. Also the block has to be strengthend as well where that is extra weight. Yes normally a shorter stroke has a lighter rotating assembly but just because its a shorter stroke does not necessarily make it so. Also you are only limiting your RPMs by the quality of material you are using and if you can supply the added air/fuel. If ya have the same heads/cam on a 400 as a 377 then ya the 377 will rev higher (atleast make power to the higher RPM). However if you provide the extra air/fuel that a bigger engine needs it will rev to the same RPM and make more horsepower/torque while it is at it. Taking cubes away so it can rev higher is better for a turbo why? Because it goes through the 4 stroke cycle faster meaning the turbo spins faster because of the faster exhaust stroke of the destroked engine? Possibly, then again a 400 will put out more exhaust at once making up for the slower exhaust stroke. Super Charger better off being stroked? Any motor is. N/A motor left untouched? What the hell for. Ive said it before and ill say it again. Taking cubes away is pointless if you do not need to stay within a certain class.

DevilsAddvocate

You did the right thing

jrg77

Thanks,

I just want to know if there's a better combo out there than the E-tec 200cc and AirGap Vortec manifold. It is about $1400, but if I get some $1400 heads I don't have to sell the Performer RPM intake I already have.

I tried to ask this stuff in advanced tech, but got the "Go away, little boy" treatment.

I guess you pays your money you takes your chances.

Jason.

DevilsAddvocate

Well id say AFR 210/220s if there wasnt a 6 month back order but hey try your luck on ebay or get some twisted wedge heads.

jrg77

If I could pay for them as I wait that would be cool. But I doubt that anybody would go for that.

I tell you what. They sound ripe for a buyout. More business than they can handle and a need for capital expansion.

jrg77

My best guess is that I am leaving 40-50 hp on the table by going with the Edelbrocks. Is that about right?

Are the Trickflows an even match for the AFRs?

Jason

DevilsAddvocate

Trick Flow R Series 215cc Heads 1500 dollar version

Lift Value: Intake Flow
(CFM): Exhaust Flow
(CFM):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0.100 66 57
0.200 141 107
0.300 199 145
0.400 244 175
0.500 273 190
0.600 282 198
0.700 287 203

NOTE: Test conducted at 28" of water (pressure). Exhaust with pipe.

AFR 220s 1500 dollar version


0.200 132 112
0.300 190 145
0.400 248 185
0.500 280 205
0.600 286 215
0.700 292 220

Now I totally forgot about Canfield heads which not too many people use or hear of but my fault for forgetting. If i didnt get the steal on my AFR 220s that I did and had to buy cyclinder heads new i would definetly have gotten the Canfield heads. Theyre a little cheaper and flow better.

Canfield 220 heads 1500 dollar version

0.100 71.7 52.2
0.200 144.9 104.9
0.300 206.4 146.2
0.400 252.4 184.0
0.500 288.0 203.2
0.600 301.7 219.2
0.700 306.1 227.2

Only thing is with the Canfield and Trickflow heads the exhaust #s are WITHOUT a pipe and with the AFRs it is with a pipe so the AFRs are more accurate on the exhaust side. Also the Trick Flows have a slightly smaller intake port meaning the air/fuel will be fed at a slightly faster velocity equalling more torque. Then again it flows less so probably balanced out. Also take into cosideration on what size cam you will be using. If its not making more than .500 lift its pointless to look at the .6 and up lift flow #s. Hope that helps, definetly if you have the 1500ish cash to spend those are the 3 to look at. Keep us updated on the build and enjoy.

DTL504

I will give you my true experience which I have the same block, same cubes (408). I had my engine broken in on a dyno with a solid cam and AFR heads, she pulled really good in the 6500 RPM. The key to building the engine correct and having it last is to make sure that you have all the right matching parts. You can take a look at the components of my engine and the dyno results. If you read through the data you can see how the engine ran with different carbs and timing changes. If I can be of any assistance let me know, plus the guy that I had my AFR heads ordered from was the cheapest direct from AFR and free shipping. My complete buildsheet is also include with all the parts used in the engine:
SBC 408 Dyno w/ AFR 195

DevilsAddvocate

I was lookin through your website and on the dyno section i could not find out what she put down. Any #s?

DTL504

On the website go to dyno sheet and the 1st sheet is the buildup and all the other sheet dyno results/#. 1963, 1967,1970,1971 etc

DevilsAddvocate

Kinda hard to read i looked at the 73 one not 2 shabby at all. Curious this is all done engine out of the car, correct not rwhp/tq?

DTL504

Lets see if I can give you a quick class how weshots page is setup:
1. Click Image resolution 1745 x 2400 view full page button located below the page.

2. Move you cursor over the document and the little dialog box (save, print, mail, folder,) will appear then a orange ball with 4 arrows appear at bottom right, click on that to magnify the document.

Please let me know if you still having problems.
Dave

DevilsAddvocate

Got it, looks good. Curious, what made you go with the 195s instead of 210s or even 220s? Also what intake are you using, victor jr or rpm?

DTL504

The flow of the heads in the RPM area where my cam was designed to pull and where the car will spend most of its time. I thought that the 210 would have raise the rpm curve a litter higher in the rpm band and would not have been a benefit for a 95% street car. The 210 will flow higher in the upper RPM which would have been useless for my street car.

The build sheet is a list of all the parts used in the assembly done by me in the garage. I have a Edelbroc RPM Intake.
Thanks

jrg77

My local guy says I should do a 210 Victor jr. with the single plane manifold. His agument is the performance is similar to the AFRs as cast, and if I take them to be CNC'ed they'd be even better, plus they have them in stock, and don't need special hardware.

I mentioned minimum cross sectional area, and he said I was reading too many books.

The good news is that he hadn't placed the order for the rotatingassembly yet. I'm now getting SRP pistons with a 7cc dish instead of the KB pistons with the 30cc dish, so my compression should be closer to 9.98:1.