guys that have done a TPI to carb swap in here
12-21-2003, 05:36 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Norfolk, VA. USA
Posts: 1,880
I went from carb to TPI which isn't too hard. Going from TPI to carb would be a walk in the park, at least for me.
Both have thier good points and bad points.
The best advantage carb has is cost, all you have is a carb and a fuel pump.
TPI has 6-7 electronic sensors, ranging in price from $18 to $200.
I like TPI mainly for aesthetics. It is nice to look at.
My carb setup,
My TPI setup,
Both have thier good points and bad points.
The best advantage carb has is cost, all you have is a carb and a fuel pump.
TPI has 6-7 electronic sensors, ranging in price from $18 to $200.
I like TPI mainly for aesthetics. It is nice to look at.
My carb setup,
My TPI setup,
12-24-2003, 09:20 PM
#17
3rd Gen Tech Moderator
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 780
Originally posted by Rice Killer87
ur still taking more things apart than me...and im not even counting the time its gonna take u to burn the chip.
if u all want to stick w/ the intake thats only going to allow aprrox. 5000 RPM's and thats with 48 hours worth of porting and gutting that thing...than go right ahead if 2 or 3 MPG means that much to u.
all u really need to do is pick up a copy of Super Chevy magazine (if u dont get it already) and look at the Danger Mouse section (if ur not familiar w/ it,its where they try different setups on a SBC and dyno it) and i bet close to 99% of them of carb'd. they are just starting to get into EFI...but its more of a TBI kind of injection than a TPI
ur still taking more things apart than me...and im not even counting the time its gonna take u to burn the chip.
if u all want to stick w/ the intake thats only going to allow aprrox. 5000 RPM's and thats with 48 hours worth of porting and gutting that thing...than go right ahead if 2 or 3 MPG means that much to u.
all u really need to do is pick up a copy of Super Chevy magazine (if u dont get it already) and look at the Danger Mouse section (if ur not familiar w/ it,its where they try different setups on a SBC and dyno it) and i bet close to 99% of them of carb'd. they are just starting to get into EFI...but its more of a TBI kind of injection than a TPI
Carbs biggest advantage is cost, and simplicity. Every other advantage goes to EFI. There have been numerous write ups in magazines showing the difference between a carb, and an EFI with a converted carb intake. In all the tests I have seen, the peak horsepower was within 10 of each other, at about the same RPM. Yes I get Super Chevy and I have seen the Danger Mouse articles. I laugh at them and their attempt to make power with a TBI setup. Throw a better EFI on there and you'll see very similar power results.
Yes my peak power currently drops off at 5000 rpms, and yes a carb might pull to 5500 or 6000, but I like the extra advantages having an EFI setup gives me. And I'm now running a siamesed TPI intake, which feels like it has given me more RPM's. But I cant go by the butt-dyno until I get to a real dyno and test it.
Carbs are great for drag racers, but EFI rules for street cars. That's my point.
12-25-2003, 02:05 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 4,784
Ok, first of all, this isn't meant to be a flame or anything mean. That said...
How do you figure a carb. is easier to tune than a computer?
to change jets ill take off
-1 wing nut for the ait cleaner
-like 8 screws and pop the top of the carb off
-unscrew the 4 jets,replace w/ different ones and reverse the dissassembly
Ok, not to mention you will also need to adjust the carb cam, accelerator pumps, the air fuel mixture, idle, fast idle, floats, etc... How long does it take you to do that? I'm not even going to get into setting the timing, the advance, and all that other jazz.
I can change any factor in the way my engine runs without removing a single bolt, nut, screw, or anything else. Simply...
-plug in 1 port connector
-make sure the batteries for my laptop are charged
-edit a few spreadsheets and upload
Plus I don't get dirty or end up smelling like gasoline.
As far as an intake that limits how high you can rev the motor, yeah, TPI is not the greatest thing in the world when it comes to top end power. But, on two identical motors, the one with the TPI will almost always produce more torque and will definately be more driveable than the motor setup with a carb. And, once you get rid of the TPI and go with a good, high flow manifold, the EFI setup will perform way better than the carb setup.
Now I will admit that EFI isn't cheap. But everyone knows you have to pay to play.
And, if you have more $$ to play with, you can get some of the newer computers that can be programmed on the fly and allow for more precise control of the system. Accel's new Gen 7 DFI will generate base tables if you enter a few specifics about how your motor is set up. This really cuts down on the amount of time you have to invest in programming the computer.
Lastly, and my favorite, once an EFI car has been programmed to satisfaction, you never have to reprogram it for chagnes in temperature, humidity, altitude, etc... I can take my EFI car to any drag strip in the country, and I can get nearly the results from each track without opening the hood to adjust things.
How do you figure a carb. is easier to tune than a computer?
to change jets ill take off
-1 wing nut for the ait cleaner
-like 8 screws and pop the top of the carb off
-unscrew the 4 jets,replace w/ different ones and reverse the dissassembly
I can change any factor in the way my engine runs without removing a single bolt, nut, screw, or anything else. Simply...
-plug in 1 port connector
-make sure the batteries for my laptop are charged
-edit a few spreadsheets and upload
Plus I don't get dirty or end up smelling like gasoline.
As far as an intake that limits how high you can rev the motor, yeah, TPI is not the greatest thing in the world when it comes to top end power. But, on two identical motors, the one with the TPI will almost always produce more torque and will definately be more driveable than the motor setup with a carb. And, once you get rid of the TPI and go with a good, high flow manifold, the EFI setup will perform way better than the carb setup.
Now I will admit that EFI isn't cheap. But everyone knows you have to pay to play.
And, if you have more $$ to play with, you can get some of the newer computers that can be programmed on the fly and allow for more precise control of the system. Accel's new Gen 7 DFI will generate base tables if you enter a few specifics about how your motor is set up. This really cuts down on the amount of time you have to invest in programming the computer.
Lastly, and my favorite, once an EFI car has been programmed to satisfaction, you never have to reprogram it for chagnes in temperature, humidity, altitude, etc... I can take my EFI car to any drag strip in the country, and I can get nearly the results from each track without opening the hood to adjust things.
12-25-2003, 08:34 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,601
yall are blowing this way outta proportion. all i was tryin to say was that its ALOT cheaper to run a (fast) carbed car than it is to run a (fast) EFI car.
adjust idle and fast idle and such? its not rocket science to turn a couple screw w/ a screw driver man lol.
another thing i meant earlier was when something goes wrong w/ 1 of your wonderful sensors goes bad or screws up...car starts running crappy and throws no code...what do u do then? (im talking about TPI cars,not necessarily OBD-II systems) u could ask online,or start replacing things u MIGHT THNIK is the problem. w/ a carb setup...u have the distributor,carb,and on my car,an electric fuel pump. when somethin goes wrong and the car starts running crappy,there can only be so many things wrong w/ it. i dont have money laying around to start throwin parts at it that COULD be right...or wrong. if i did,i wouldve stayed w/ FI in the first place,but its the fact that i now have around 150 more HP than i did before...for maybe less than half the cost if i was still using my TPI setup.
adjust idle and fast idle and such? its not rocket science to turn a couple screw w/ a screw driver man lol.
another thing i meant earlier was when something goes wrong w/ 1 of your wonderful sensors goes bad or screws up...car starts running crappy and throws no code...what do u do then? (im talking about TPI cars,not necessarily OBD-II systems) u could ask online,or start replacing things u MIGHT THNIK is the problem. w/ a carb setup...u have the distributor,carb,and on my car,an electric fuel pump. when somethin goes wrong and the car starts running crappy,there can only be so many things wrong w/ it. i dont have money laying around to start throwin parts at it that COULD be right...or wrong. if i did,i wouldve stayed w/ FI in the first place,but its the fact that i now have around 150 more HP than i did before...for maybe less than half the cost if i was still using my TPI setup.
12-25-2003, 10:28 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 4,784
Still fail to see how it is more expensive to run a MPFI car over a carb. If you've already got the fuel pump, regulator, computer, wiring harness (all the stock hardware) it costs the same to replace a TPI manifold with a better MPFI manifold as it does to change over to a carb.
12-25-2003, 10:52 PM
#21
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,601
easy....if u dont burn your own chips,than thats prob close to $400 right there in just a chip.
and if u do,u have to buy the computer,cable,get the software (which im guessing u can d/l online for free?)
now,if i had an LT1 or LS1 car i wouldnt ever concider changing it to a carb...theres no point at all. but when u have a TPI like i did,and dont wanna spend $350-400 for seimesed runners,$350 for the scoggin dickey base for vortec heads,gettin chips burned and blah blah blah (its late here and im tired so i know im forgettin alot) its just most cost efficient for my to run a carb b/c i dont have money like listed above to throw at my car and still have it run high,maybe low 13's to save 3 MPG.
pretty much what im tryin to get across is....take between $1500 and $2000...put it towards the same car....1 w/ a carb and 1 w/ TPI. which is gonna go fasters? more than likely id say the carb car
and if u do,u have to buy the computer,cable,get the software (which im guessing u can d/l online for free?)
now,if i had an LT1 or LS1 car i wouldnt ever concider changing it to a carb...theres no point at all. but when u have a TPI like i did,and dont wanna spend $350-400 for seimesed runners,$350 for the scoggin dickey base for vortec heads,gettin chips burned and blah blah blah (its late here and im tired so i know im forgettin alot) its just most cost efficient for my to run a carb b/c i dont have money like listed above to throw at my car and still have it run high,maybe low 13's to save 3 MPG.
pretty much what im tryin to get across is....take between $1500 and $2000...put it towards the same car....1 w/ a carb and 1 w/ TPI. which is gonna go fasters? more than likely id say the carb car
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