Ideal Project Car Q's
08-12-2002, 12:35 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6
Ideal Project Car Q's
Ok, if you could choose any third-gen F-body as a base car for a total build-up including a built 502 and T400, what would you pick? I'd like opinions based on technical merit rather than the aesthetic appeal of the particular year/make. Since the engine will be replaced, that's not a concern. Are any years better suited for big blocks? Did any of them by chance come with T400's? What about the rear end? I am not sure if a 10-bolt would hold up for long with the power I'm expecting (550-600hp/tq). If not, what advantages would there be to going over to a 12-bolt or Ford 9"?
I'm relatively new to the Chevy world (I'm a Ford guy mostly), but Chevy big block buildups are way cheaper and easier than Fords
.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I'm relatively new to the Chevy world (I'm a Ford guy mostly), but Chevy big block buildups are way cheaper and easier than Fords
.Thanks in advance for your help.
08-12-2002, 10:05 PM
#2
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,444
Could just be a co-inquidink, but I see quite a few 83 Camaros being used for project cars. Although I have no evidence to support it being any "better" than any other year.
------------------
James D Montigny
1992 Pontiac Firebird 305 TBI
Bone Stock Officer, I Swear !
The members of this board are enthusiasts, not experts.
Please consider everything that you read an opinion.
------------------
James D Montigny
1992 Pontiac Firebird 305 TBI
Bone Stock Officer, I Swear !
The members of this board are enthusiasts, not experts.
Please consider everything that you read an opinion.
08-12-2002, 11:00 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: waterford, MI - USA
Posts: 3,738
well, your ideal project car should first and foremost be rust free. everything else is fixable/modifiable(spelling?). check the usual places around the rear wheel wells and check the strut towers on the underside for rust. thats a pretty common place for these cars to rust. other than that the frame that the tranny crossmember bolts to also is a bad spot.
Id stay away from the firebirds cause they dont have ANY front grille so the only air that goes through the rad. is what comes from underneath. you'll need all the help you can get on keeping temps down.
th400's never came in 3rd gens. but you can get custom tranny crossmembers/torques arms that make that an easy swap. www.spoon.com i believe has them.
you wont be able to keep the windshield wipers at all.
may require specific valve covers to clear the brake booster(if your not going to manual brakes)
if you dont mind the looks, the pre-tpi cars are the most reasonbly priced.
Id stay away from the firebirds cause they dont have ANY front grille so the only air that goes through the rad. is what comes from underneath. you'll need all the help you can get on keeping temps down.
th400's never came in 3rd gens. but you can get custom tranny crossmembers/torques arms that make that an easy swap. www.spoon.com i believe has them.
you wont be able to keep the windshield wipers at all.
may require specific valve covers to clear the brake booster(if your not going to manual brakes)
if you dont mind the looks, the pre-tpi cars are the most reasonbly priced.
08-12-2002, 11:18 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: waterford, MI - USA
Posts: 3,738
well, your ideal project car should first and foremost be rust free. everything else is fixable/modifiable(spelling?). check the usual places around the rear wheel wells and check the strut towers on the underside for rust. thats a pretty common place for these cars to rust. other than that the frame that the tranny crossmember bolts to also is a bad spot.
Id stay away from the firebirds cause they dont have ANY front grille so the only air that goes through the rad. is what comes from underneath. you'll need all the help you can get on keeping temps down.
th400's never came in 3rd gens. but you can get custom tranny crossmembers/torques arms that make that an easy swap. www.spoon.com i believe has them.
you wont be able to keep the windshield wipers at all.
may require specific valve covers to clear the brake booster(if your not going to manual brakes)
if you dont mind the looks, the pre-tpi cars are the most reasonbly priced.
Id stay away from the firebirds cause they dont have ANY front grille so the only air that goes through the rad. is what comes from underneath. you'll need all the help you can get on keeping temps down.
th400's never came in 3rd gens. but you can get custom tranny crossmembers/torques arms that make that an easy swap. www.spoon.com i believe has them.
you wont be able to keep the windshield wipers at all.
may require specific valve covers to clear the brake booster(if your not going to manual brakes)
if you dont mind the looks, the pre-tpi cars are the most reasonbly priced.
08-12-2002, 11:55 PM
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 51°N 114°W, 3500' elevation
Posts: 2,037
It's www.spohn.net
Finding a good base is important. As mentioned above buy something rust free even if it'll cost you extra. Buying a rust bucket will cost more to fix up.
Other than cosmetic styling all the 82-92 cars are built the same. There are different options for the different models but basically it's what specific model do you want to use.
A 10 bolt can be built up to take a lot of abuse but it's still just a tiny 7 1/2 or 7 5/8" ring gear. I ran one for a couple of years with no problems. I ran as quick as 11.24 on a 10 bolt before blowing an engine. Buying a complete bolt in replacement 9" or 12 bolt will set you back around $2000. You'll need on of these or you'll have to change the entire rear suspension to something else if you wish to use a junkyard diff. The third gen uses a torque arm and you need some way to attach it to the diff.
The wiper motor clearance is an issue if you're using tall valve covers. They don't come close to the brake booster but changing #5 and #7 spark plugs becomes a project.
If you intend on producing that much power you're going to have to change the entire driveline anyway. Find something with a V6 or a V8 with something blown in the driveline.
My car has a 454, TH400 and ford 9" with ladder bars. Everything has been fabricated to make them all fit.
------------------
Stephen's racing page
or check out the race car
87 IROC SuperPro race car
461 big block
Best ET on a time slip: 11.418
Best MPH on a time slip: 117.01
Best corrected ET: 11.051
Altitude corrected rear wheel HP: 468
Best 60 foot: 1.595
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association
Finding a good base is important. As mentioned above buy something rust free even if it'll cost you extra. Buying a rust bucket will cost more to fix up.
Other than cosmetic styling all the 82-92 cars are built the same. There are different options for the different models but basically it's what specific model do you want to use.
A 10 bolt can be built up to take a lot of abuse but it's still just a tiny 7 1/2 or 7 5/8" ring gear. I ran one for a couple of years with no problems. I ran as quick as 11.24 on a 10 bolt before blowing an engine. Buying a complete bolt in replacement 9" or 12 bolt will set you back around $2000. You'll need on of these or you'll have to change the entire rear suspension to something else if you wish to use a junkyard diff. The third gen uses a torque arm and you need some way to attach it to the diff.
The wiper motor clearance is an issue if you're using tall valve covers. They don't come close to the brake booster but changing #5 and #7 spark plugs becomes a project.
If you intend on producing that much power you're going to have to change the entire driveline anyway. Find something with a V6 or a V8 with something blown in the driveline.
My car has a 454, TH400 and ford 9" with ladder bars. Everything has been fabricated to make them all fit.
------------------
Stephen's racing page
or check out the race car
87 IROC SuperPro race car
461 big block
Best ET on a time slip: 11.418
Best MPH on a time slip: 117.01
Best corrected ET: 11.051
Altitude corrected rear wheel HP: 468
Best 60 foot: 1.595
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association
08-13-2002, 12:42 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6
TPI started in 1985, correct?
What should I expect to pay for, say, a 1983 Camaro Z28 with no rust or cosmetic damage, and in working order? (obviously if it's got a blown engine or tranny, it should be quite cheap)
I've heard that the Ford 8.8" is very nearly as strong as the 9", and I know that a lot of mod motor guys are using it to push pretty deep into the 9's and 8's (which is rather far beyond what I'm expecting to do anytime soon). Of course, I have no idea if the 8.8" is easily swapped to a Camaro. Any thoughts?
One other thing on that subject - is there any real difference in strength or reliability between the 9" and the 12 bolt?
Right now I'm figuring a budget of about $16,000 for the entire vehicle, excluding any outside labor costs (I'm doing most of the work myself, but some things will be beyond my abilities I suspect). For those that have done this before (especially you, Stephen), is that a realistic figure?
What should I expect to pay for, say, a 1983 Camaro Z28 with no rust or cosmetic damage, and in working order? (obviously if it's got a blown engine or tranny, it should be quite cheap)
I've heard that the Ford 8.8" is very nearly as strong as the 9", and I know that a lot of mod motor guys are using it to push pretty deep into the 9's and 8's (which is rather far beyond what I'm expecting to do anytime soon). Of course, I have no idea if the 8.8" is easily swapped to a Camaro. Any thoughts?
One other thing on that subject - is there any real difference in strength or reliability between the 9" and the 12 bolt?
Right now I'm figuring a budget of about $16,000 for the entire vehicle, excluding any outside labor costs (I'm doing most of the work myself, but some things will be beyond my abilities I suspect). For those that have done this before (especially you, Stephen), is that a realistic figure?
08-13-2002, 05:35 AM
#7
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Willows, Ca, USA
Posts: 92
I have owned a 91 firebird, and an 86 camaro, both of which kick(ed) complete *** on the streets here in chico, I also just bought the cars for their body stylings, but then realized that there isn't much going for the body styling, every camaro/firebird look the same for the most part, and only the little things set them apart.
But the '82 to '84 camaros have a set of ground effects that look really good, I had the url, but I can't seem to find it right now.
Its a love/hate kinda alteration though, as some people like the 82 to 84s looking differant, and some think it messes it all up.
Seeing as your budget is so large, you should beable to do almost anything you want, when I Bought the firebird, I had a base budget of 12k, and I replaced all the ground effects, new glass, new exhaust, new nose and bumper, **** the engine up, and redid the suspension for less then 5k after the cost of buying it.
So really nomatter what you buy, for you budget, you could make it noticable on the street.
I figure that most people would lean towards the anniversary years, just because those have collectors potential, but all the other years are the same, so thats up to you.
Believe it or not, I have been looking at an 83 camaro down the street, one owner, 122k miles, Seriously flawless interior, exterior, V6 for $2300, so look for around that price, even though it honestly is pretty steep for a V6 (in my opinion)
+=-KarmaCult-=+
But the '82 to '84 camaros have a set of ground effects that look really good, I had the url, but I can't seem to find it right now.
Its a love/hate kinda alteration though, as some people like the 82 to 84s looking differant, and some think it messes it all up.
Seeing as your budget is so large, you should beable to do almost anything you want, when I Bought the firebird, I had a base budget of 12k, and I replaced all the ground effects, new glass, new exhaust, new nose and bumper, **** the engine up, and redid the suspension for less then 5k after the cost of buying it.
So really nomatter what you buy, for you budget, you could make it noticable on the street.
I figure that most people would lean towards the anniversary years, just because those have collectors potential, but all the other years are the same, so thats up to you.
Believe it or not, I have been looking at an 83 camaro down the street, one owner, 122k miles, Seriously flawless interior, exterior, V6 for $2300, so look for around that price, even though it honestly is pretty steep for a V6 (in my opinion)
+=-KarmaCult-=+
08-13-2002, 10:20 AM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Low Moor, Iowa USA
Posts: 81
i snagged my 84, 3 years ago, the brakes were completely shot, it was a carb v6, auto, it spent, about 90% of its life in arizona, so paint was a little faded, but very little rust, it had been in an accident before, door and rear fender had been replaced and painted already. we got it for $1000, and it had a set or american racing wheels on it already with decent tires, she was a 19 second beast. its a little faster now 
, mods are below, except for the 5 speed that is sitting next to it waiting for a clutch and flywheel
------------------
84' Firebird, 305ci lg4, 700R4, 288/292 duration .450/.460 lift,Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 600cfm 4 barrel, K&N filter, Pacesetter Headers, 3'single exhuast, dual out muffler, no cat,Motive 3.73's and Auburn Posi
1/4mile 15.17sec @ 92.5mph
currently in pieces, for manual swap
, mods are below, except for the 5 speed that is sitting next to it waiting for a clutch and flywheel------------------
84' Firebird, 305ci lg4, 700R4, 288/292 duration .450/.460 lift,Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 600cfm 4 barrel, K&N filter, Pacesetter Headers, 3'single exhuast, dual out muffler, no cat,Motive 3.73's and Auburn Posi
1/4mile 15.17sec @ 92.5mph
currently in pieces, for manual swap
08-13-2002, 02:52 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6
Well, here's what I'm looking at:
zz502 premium kit engine - 7000
t400 built transmssion - 2000
ford 9" rear end - 2300
base vehicle - 2000
roll cage, safety harness/seats - 500
exhaust, headers, mufflers - 700
shocks/suspension work - 500
radiator/cooling system - 300
misc. parts - 1000
total - 16300
Misc. parts would include wiring harness, instruments, any tools I don't already have, etc. Am I missing anything major?
Since I was just recently promoted at work, I'm probably going to be able to start working on this project in late October/early November, or whenever I find a suitable base vehicle.
zz502 premium kit engine - 7000
t400 built transmssion - 2000
ford 9" rear end - 2300
base vehicle - 2000
roll cage, safety harness/seats - 500
exhaust, headers, mufflers - 700
shocks/suspension work - 500
radiator/cooling system - 300
misc. parts - 1000
total - 16300
Misc. parts would include wiring harness, instruments, any tools I don't already have, etc. Am I missing anything major?
Since I was just recently promoted at work, I'm probably going to be able to start working on this project in late October/early November, or whenever I find a suitable base vehicle.
08-13-2002, 11:26 PM
#10
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: waterford, MI - USA
Posts: 3,738
you should be able to get a descent car to start w/for alot cheaper then that. I paid $200 for my rolling chassis w/almost zero rust, but it had ratty int. and paint. w/a dent/crease in the qrtr. panel. just keep your eyes open, something will come up. oh yeah, there's a 86 IRoc roling chassis for sale in the "for sale" forum. its in texas and he already has the cage and subframe conn.s in for only $500! think he said rust free, but cant remember now. check it out. good luck. sounds like fun. chris
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