CamaroStylin

the subject kinda says it all. I'll be building an engine soon for my 88 camaro and Im trying to find out what sort of induction system would be best and most cost efficient. i'd REALLY like to use the TPI system, but ive been researching the stealthram intake, super ram and mini ram for the last couple of days. these systems go for anywhere from 2200-3800 dollars. this, to me, is absolutely insane. my question is, what can the stock TPI give me from the factory, and what if i ported and polished it? including the runner? I dont see how it could possibly be worth the money to buy those systems when their air flow specs are hardly any better.
just so you know, i'll be using a 350 and will be expecting to run it up to about 6 grand MAX, naturally aspirated, expecting roughly 420-450 hp

thanks for the help guys! i really appreciate it!

97WS6SCharged

To be honest, I don't think you'll see your goals with the factory TPI. The stock TPI was designed to feed a 305, and it is one of the best truck intakes ever made. What you're looking at for $2200-$3800 dollars is a 500-600 dollar intake and a $1600 dollar digital EFI computer. As far as the stealth ram goes, you can find the manifold under Holley PN 7540 (or 7540P for polished) and the fuel rails with adjustable regulator should be PN 534-186. You can use a stock GM computer with a custom burned chip to control the thing.

aklim

I have heard good things about the Stealth Ram. One drawback tho. You cannot pass emmissions without and EGR and the HSR does not have it. If you have to pass emmissions, get an Accel Superram.

trackbird

The stock TPI has a runner that is 17" inches long. This makes good port velocity to fill the cylinders at low rpm (this is why they make so much torque). But at high rpm it is a restriction. The stock TPI intake is pretty well "done" by 4200 RPM on a 350. It will make some power above that, but you are losing alot of HP at that point as well. I suspect you'll make more power with the Stealth Ram, but if you must have EGR the SuperRam is a huge improvement.

My thoughts.

90rocz

Actually the runners are closer to 19" long to the intake valve seat, and most of the restriction is just the runner diameter and base intake runner diameters. And stock is good for around 4800rpms, modified..upwards of 5400 rpms...
And contrary to popular belief, the TPI was deigned for the Corvette 350 and NOT the 305. GM engineers raided the Vette parts bins to rush the TPI Camaro into production in '85.

I'd either get some large-tube runners and an Edlebrock base intake, modifying the plenum; or a Holley Stealth Ram $296 and fuel rail $199.

I'm modiying my TPI by porting the plenum and base while buying some large tube runners. And I'm building a 400-420HP 350, 24# inj + Prom, 52mm T/B, stock ported heads-Street-Flo valves and ZZ4 cam/springs, headers, 2500 stall, 3.73 rears.

CamaroStylin

wait. i can get a holly stealth ram intake for 296 bucks? and what's the fuel rail for? is it required in order to fit under the intake?
in this particular part of Va. there are no emmisions tests. Im sure it'll come around some time, but for right now if you've got a cat in your exhaust, that's enough to pass the test. it can even be gutted, as long as it's on there.
so the stock TPI system has unusually long intake runners? and that's what causes the air flow problems at high rpms?
how does the holly stealth ram help? what's better for performance, the stealthram or the super ram? how much could i get each for? how much does it cost to have a chip burned? I've been told there's a guy at Ethyl corp. who custom burns chips and i've got a guy on the inside of that company so maybe i could ask for a favor and get it done cheaper.
I've got a stock TPI intake system on an engine I designed on desktop dyno 2000 that puts out... 422 hp i think it was and 433 ft/lbs of torque. is that considered good for the TPI?
any tips you guys could give me on this tpi build up would be great
im also having a hard time trying to find a rebuild kit with new rods/pistons in it for the TPI system. i can hardly find a TPI rebuild kit itself. i dont know why.

thanks SO much you guys!

aklim

How about going here?

CamaroStylin

thanks for the link. ill read over it in a second. Can I get some follow up posts from 97WS6 and 90rocz? it seems like you two were heading in the exact direction of what i needed.

On my dyno program I put a "tunnel ram" intake on the engine instead of the TPI system and the hp jumped from 422 up to 483 using the same cam and everything and there was also a huge increase in high end and overall torque. is the Stealth Ram intake considered a "tunnel ram?" what exactly is a tunnel ram intake? thanks guys!!

Rice Killer87

the holley stealth ram is sorta like a tunnel ram...a tunnel ram sits up real high and allows more air and fuel to go into the combustion chamber (correct?)

go and and click on the 1 that says "view product"...it will show u what a tunnel ram looks like
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...45&prmenbr=361

hope that helps

Dirt Reynolds

From page 123 of John Lingenfelter on Modifying Small Block Chevy Engines:

"An interesting aside to this story is that there is no difference in size between the 305 and 350 TPI factory manifolds. This is because the TPI was originally designed to increase the 305's torque, since misguided GM planners at design time had dropped the 350 from future Chevrolet plans! Thankfully, Chevy discovered that performance wasn't dead and quickly rushed the 350 back into production plans. Unfortunately, Chevy was forced to use the 305 TPI manifold since no other performance manifold existed. This explains why the stock 350 TPI engine tends to give up around 4800 RPM as opposed to a higher RPM point, because the intake was originally designed for an engine 45 cubic inches smaller!"

Black6SpdTA

Exactly what it's considered. Tunnel Ram for EFI. Tunnel ram is just an intake with an open space in the middle. The inside kind of looks like a tunnel, so much open room. A carb tunnel ram intake is the same concept, really tall and lots of area inside. I think at least.

CamaroStylin

thanks for all this info guys! and thanks a LOT for the link to that Stealth Ram info site. i read most of it and it looks like the total cost of converting would be just under 700 dollars and would give me a 61hp increase at the flywheel. my new question though is this:
earlier it was said that the stealthram could be used with just the intake and the fuel rail in combination with a custom burned chip. this conversion parts list doesnt say anything about modifying the computer. can i use the stock computer? is there a place on the stealthram that will hold the "manifold density" sensor or whatever it is that was used from 90-92? do i need a new intake manifold with this or will it easily swap with the TPI intake and runners?
seems like every little bit of info leads to 5 new questions, huh?
I ordered that book by John Lingenfelter off amazon.com on the 16th but unfortunately it hasnt come in yet. it's latest delivery expectation is on the 2nd. hopefully there will be enough knowledge in there to help me answer some of these questions

keep the info comming guys! it's the little comments and suggestions that make the biggest difference

97WS6SCharged

The Stealth Ram should be able to run in SD mode. It will use all the standard sensors from a TPI. When it comes to a custom chip, you will retain the factor computer, but you will pull the actual chip inside the computer and replace it with the custom unit. While changing the chip isn't completely necessary for the manifold to work, you won't see the full potential of the new parts without the custom programming.

You might also want to check out the TPI Swappers Guide, it's another book with alot of ideas for TPI guys.

aklim

The stock computer is just a dumb box. When you put the right chip in, it takes readings from the inputs and does processing. You will have to burn the chip in the ECM to make it work well.

How about ordering the book from Lingenfelters themselves. I did and was lucky enough to order it before his demise so he autographed it for me.

I thought the HSR was the complete thing and you would not have to reuse your old manifold

97WS6SCharged

The HSR is a complete manifold and the only thing you reuse are your sensors (well, maybe your injectors too). Oh, and you have to reuse your TB I believe, unless you get a big shiny billet one from Holley.