T56 into a 1990 350 automatic ???
08-01-2003, 11:36 AM
#1
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 462
T56 into a 1990 350 automatic ???
T56 into a 1990 350 automatic ???
I heard you have to get a new crossmember and the floorboard has to be cut a bit, but i heard this was for replacing a T5, I have an automatic 700R ? Is there anything different? Also will this effect my computer? what do I do with the wires on the trans now?
thanks alot everyone!!
I heard you have to get a new crossmember and the floorboard has to be cut a bit, but i heard this was for replacing a T5, I have an automatic 700R ? Is there anything different? Also will this effect my computer? what do I do with the wires on the trans now?
thanks alot everyone!!
08-01-2003, 01:18 PM
#2
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
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A guy on here, TheGreatJ, swapped his Auto to T56. He can tell you just about anything you need to know. Have you seen this article yet? http://www.skulte.com/T56.html
-Rippin
-Rippin
08-01-2003, 06:46 PM
#3
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: T-town
Posts: 1,677
I really just need to write a tech article on this......it seems like I answer the same question every week or 2. Anywhere, here goes:
Get everything you can from a wrecked 93-97 F-body. That's the cheapest way to go. Some of the '93 tranny's have a deeper 1st gear and .62 overdrive instead of the .5 that most of them have.
Parts you'll need:
Tranny, bellhousing, shifter, clutch disc, pressure plate, flywheel, clutch hydraulics, torque arm mount, starter, and pedals (3rd gen pedals will work too) all from the donor car.
Get a conversion crossmember from Spohn. He has a really good design for a great price. I recommend getting his torque arm too (if you can afford it) because it takes a LOT of stress off the tailshaft housing and will keep you from breaking tranny mounts every 3 months. If you go this route you don't need the torque arm mount from the donor car.
Go to Dakota Digital and order the SGI-5 signal converter. You'll need it if you want your speedo to work.
The install is fairly straightforward.....yank the driveshaft, torque arm, starter, 700-R4, flexplate, and shifter.....change the pedals.....bolt up the flywheel, clutch, starter, and bellhousing.....put the trans in place and mark the floorpan for the shifter hole......pull the tranny back out and cut the shifter hole......bolt up the trans, crossmember, clutch hydros, driveshaft, and torque arm.....install the shifter, mount the SGI-5, and do the wiring.....start bangin gears.
If you're lucky you might already have the holes in the firewall for the clutch hydros (I did) but if not I can get you some measurements for where to drill. If you have to drill the holes then that'll be the hardest part. If not then wiring will be the most interesting.
Most of the 700-R4 wires you'll be using....the VSS wires you'll need to splice into for the SGI-5 wiring, and the P/N Safety Switch will have to be wired to the Neutral Safety Switch on the T-56. You'll also need to run a wire from the brakelight switch to the reverse lockout solenoid, and tie the other pin on the solenoid to ground. The old torque convertor lockup wires can just be tied off somewhere so they won't dangle. The reverse light switch on the new tranny has to be wired into the original shifter harness....your best bet is to bring the wires up through the hole where the shifter cable used to be. Don't ask me about what color the wires in the factory harness are, it's been like 3 years since I did the swap. I believe the reverse light wires are the 2 big ones in the shifter harness.
If you have any other questions that need answered, email me at TheGreatJ@excite.com or post it here. I'll answer to the best of my ability (and memory.) Later,
Get everything you can from a wrecked 93-97 F-body. That's the cheapest way to go. Some of the '93 tranny's have a deeper 1st gear and .62 overdrive instead of the .5 that most of them have.
Parts you'll need:
Tranny, bellhousing, shifter, clutch disc, pressure plate, flywheel, clutch hydraulics, torque arm mount, starter, and pedals (3rd gen pedals will work too) all from the donor car.
Get a conversion crossmember from Spohn. He has a really good design for a great price. I recommend getting his torque arm too (if you can afford it) because it takes a LOT of stress off the tailshaft housing and will keep you from breaking tranny mounts every 3 months. If you go this route you don't need the torque arm mount from the donor car.
Go to Dakota Digital and order the SGI-5 signal converter. You'll need it if you want your speedo to work.
The install is fairly straightforward.....yank the driveshaft, torque arm, starter, 700-R4, flexplate, and shifter.....change the pedals.....bolt up the flywheel, clutch, starter, and bellhousing.....put the trans in place and mark the floorpan for the shifter hole......pull the tranny back out and cut the shifter hole......bolt up the trans, crossmember, clutch hydros, driveshaft, and torque arm.....install the shifter, mount the SGI-5, and do the wiring.....start bangin gears.
If you're lucky you might already have the holes in the firewall for the clutch hydros (I did) but if not I can get you some measurements for where to drill. If you have to drill the holes then that'll be the hardest part. If not then wiring will be the most interesting.
Most of the 700-R4 wires you'll be using....the VSS wires you'll need to splice into for the SGI-5 wiring, and the P/N Safety Switch will have to be wired to the Neutral Safety Switch on the T-56. You'll also need to run a wire from the brakelight switch to the reverse lockout solenoid, and tie the other pin on the solenoid to ground. The old torque convertor lockup wires can just be tied off somewhere so they won't dangle. The reverse light switch on the new tranny has to be wired into the original shifter harness....your best bet is to bring the wires up through the hole where the shifter cable used to be. Don't ask me about what color the wires in the factory harness are, it's been like 3 years since I did the swap. I believe the reverse light wires are the 2 big ones in the shifter harness.
If you have any other questions that need answered, email me at TheGreatJ@excite.com or post it here. I'll answer to the best of my ability (and memory.) Later,
08-01-2003, 08:35 PM
#7
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MI
Posts: 2,342
T-56 install!
Duke on this board just finished his T-56 install...Went beautifully and it drives nice so far!
stock flywheel worked, stock throttle pedal, he swapped in 4th gen brake/clutch pedals since he already had them, Spohn crossmember for T-56 to thirdgen swap, new 94-97 T-56 hydraulics, new 1997 T-56, Star clutch, new Ripper shifter... A little notching in the floorpanarea with a hacksaw worked in his car which was already a T-5 car.
Read up and look for some deals on used stuff if you can. Goodluck!
stock flywheel worked, stock throttle pedal, he swapped in 4th gen brake/clutch pedals since he already had them, Spohn crossmember for T-56 to thirdgen swap, new 94-97 T-56 hydraulics, new 1997 T-56, Star clutch, new Ripper shifter... A little notching in the floorpanarea with a hacksaw worked in his car which was already a T-5 car.
Read up and look for some deals on used stuff if you can. Goodluck!
08-01-2003, 11:24 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 672
Yea like denny was saying it's a real easy swap. I don't know what's all involved in swapping from an auto, but I'm sure it's not much harder from what I did. I'm sure the knockout for the master cylinder is alreayd their, and I'm sure that the pedals will bolt right in. Make sure you save the plastic slips that hold the brake and clutch cylinder rods onto the pedals, I didn't and had to make new ones since I couldn't find new one's anywhere else.
I used my stock L03 flywheel and had it balanced to match my motor, and used all 4th gen parts for everyhting else. I definatly suggest the Spohn crossmember, it's pretty impressive. I used a Star (SPEC) stage 3 clutch with a carbon disc, I like it personally.
It's basically a bolt in, I had no problems. I was lazy and didn't want to wire up the reverse lockout so I took the solenoid apart and removed the large spring, then reassembled it and put it back on the tranny, no problems so far, haven't gone into reverse accidently yet.
As for electrical connections, the reverse lockout is located right next to the shifter. The connector just below it is the VSS (vehicle speed sensor if someone didn't know). The 3-4 skip shift thing it located at the top of the tranny on the driver's side. Just don't connect it to anyhting, it'll be fine. The reverse light switch is on the passenger side, in the middle of the gearbox. Just make sure you take the connectors off the donor car, I can't find these connectors anywhere, so I have no speedo or backup lights.
E-mail me if ya have any questions, and don't loose all your bolts like I did. And don't strip the crossmember bolts like I did. And don't install the clutch friction disc backwards like I did.
I used my stock L03 flywheel and had it balanced to match my motor, and used all 4th gen parts for everyhting else. I definatly suggest the Spohn crossmember, it's pretty impressive. I used a Star (SPEC) stage 3 clutch with a carbon disc, I like it personally.
It's basically a bolt in, I had no problems. I was lazy and didn't want to wire up the reverse lockout so I took the solenoid apart and removed the large spring, then reassembled it and put it back on the tranny, no problems so far, haven't gone into reverse accidently yet.
As for electrical connections, the reverse lockout is located right next to the shifter. The connector just below it is the VSS (vehicle speed sensor if someone didn't know). The 3-4 skip shift thing it located at the top of the tranny on the driver's side. Just don't connect it to anyhting, it'll be fine. The reverse light switch is on the passenger side, in the middle of the gearbox. Just make sure you take the connectors off the donor car, I can't find these connectors anywhere, so I have no speedo or backup lights.
E-mail me if ya have any questions, and don't loose all your bolts like I did. And don't strip the crossmember bolts like I did. And don't install the clutch friction disc backwards like I did.
08-01-2003, 11:45 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 2,043
Originally posted by Duke
E-mail me if ya have any questions, and don't loose all your bolts like I did. And don't strip the crossmember bolts like I did. And don't install the clutch friction disc backwards like I did.
E-mail me if ya have any questions, and don't loose all your bolts like I did. And don't strip the crossmember bolts like I did. And don't install the clutch friction disc backwards like I did.
Good to hear you got it all going though.One question: I can reuse the torque arm/mount from my T5 car right? And did you get the SGI-5? If so was it hard to wire?
-Rippin
08-02-2003, 12:52 AM
#10
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Your rear view mirror...
Posts: 244
Originally posted by shwine617
would you recommend the 93 trans or the newer ones?
thanks for the help
would you recommend the 93 trans or the newer ones?
thanks for the help
08-02-2003, 08:56 AM
#11
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 672
I'm using my stock torque arm right now, bolted up just fine. Eventually I'll get a BMR heavy duty setup, but for now I just want to enjoy my car on the street.
As for the SGI-5, no I don't have one, but I do know they are easy to wire. Right now I don't have anything wired up to my tranny at all.
As for the SGI-5, no I don't have one, but I do know they are easy to wire. Right now I don't have anything wired up to my tranny at all.
08-02-2003, 02:03 PM
#13
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: T-town
Posts: 1,677
Originally posted by shwine617
would you recommend the 93 trans or the newer ones?
thanks for the help
would you recommend the 93 trans or the newer ones?
thanks for the help
'93 M28.......3.26 1st gear......350ftlb
'93 M29.......2.97 1st gear......400ftlb
'94+ MN6.....2.66 1st gear......450ftlb
AFAIK the only way to tell the difference (other than the RPO codes on the donor car) is to count how many turns of the input shaft it takes to make 1 turn of the output shaft in first gear. 3 1/4=M28, 3=M29, 2 2/3=MN6
Rippin....you need the T-56 torque arm mount because the bolt pattern is different. The SGI-5 is supposed to be easy to wire. Just look at the directions to see which input/output terminals to use, hook your VSS to the input and your VSS wires to the output, run a power wire and a ground wire and you're set.
08-05-2003, 05:38 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: NY - The Tax State
Posts: 6
shwine617,
I was wrote an article on installing a T-56 into a 700R4 F-body in 1999. It may be dated, but since I was the first in my club to make a swap with all OEM T-56 parts, I was pretty thorough (minus pics). Only guides I found online at the time were for conversion of T-5 cars to T-56, or using the aftermarket T-56 with T-5 clutch housings (*requires shortening drive shaft and torque arm 2 inches (nuts!)). Didn't know what to expect, but with parts pulled, and measuring tape in hand, I was releived to find the total length of the systems from engine to pinion yoke were the same.
The 'old' article is still online and can be found at our old website:
http://members.aol.com/macewen001/T56.html
I suggest reading a few install articles which are relevant (same components) before. You will know what to expect when you get there.
Other articles are listed here:
You WILL need a crossmember. factory 4th gen crossmember can be used, but it will needle to be cut, and rewelded. Spohn piece is nice since it reduces fabrication.http://members.aol.com/rmacewen1/techlinks.html
I was wrote an article on installing a T-56 into a 700R4 F-body in 1999. It may be dated, but since I was the first in my club to make a swap with all OEM T-56 parts, I was pretty thorough (minus pics). Only guides I found online at the time were for conversion of T-5 cars to T-56, or using the aftermarket T-56 with T-5 clutch housings (*requires shortening drive shaft and torque arm 2 inches (nuts!)). Didn't know what to expect, but with parts pulled, and measuring tape in hand, I was releived to find the total length of the systems from engine to pinion yoke were the same.
The 'old' article is still online and can be found at our old website:
http://members.aol.com/macewen001/T56.html
I suggest reading a few install articles which are relevant (same components) before. You will know what to expect when you get there.
Other articles are listed here:
You WILL need a crossmember. factory 4th gen crossmember can be used, but it will needle to be cut, and rewelded. Spohn piece is nice since it reduces fabrication.http://members.aol.com/rmacewen1/techlinks.html
Last edited by MacEwen; 08-05-2003 at 05:41 PM.
