434 LT1-injected motor build in progress
11-22-2006, 07:10 AM
#31
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Location: Hinesville, GA
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Back from the dead... lol
I've been holding out trying to find an aftermarket block. Wanted to find an aftermarket block made for an OEM roller cam, 1 pc rear main, and 4.125" bores... kinda hard to do unless I go with a rocket block or something. So since I still have the 400 block, Im gonna use it for the time being.
I hardly push a street motor over 4000 RPM anyway, so with 6" rods, a hardblok'd block on a 2 pc. rear main, and studs, should hold together with up to 434 cubes. The block has been sonic checked and has a good chunk of meat on the thrust side and no core shift issues. Hasnt even been bored...kinda rare. Going to need a custom cam for this motor too...
Using the smallest bore possible, Im using an eagle crank and rods, and JE pistons for use with 18x heads. Internally balanced in the front so I can use an LT1 fluidampr. This motor will have 23 degree heads on it, unless I cant find a set suitable for what Im doing for less than a set of Brodix 18X.
I dont plan on running it too long or racing it using the factory 400 block. If my plans change I will upgrade and move all the parts to an aftermarket casting.
Tired of sitting on this idea. I go home on leave in Feb and Im getting started putting this thing together. That makes 2 motors Im building...haha! The whole goal isnt maximum HP... it's good streetable HP and torque and that this will work. If it doesnt, hell I got another car I can put it in so no loss there, really. The point is, if this works then it will work with a high RPM variant, based on an aftermarket block, and should solve the 'aftermarket LT1 block' void.
Looking forward to getting out that pushrod length checker and figuring out the length on 18x's with roller lifters, determining if clearance issues exist with the fuel pump boss and A/C compressor, and finding a good oil pan that will fit in the car...
I've been holding out trying to find an aftermarket block. Wanted to find an aftermarket block made for an OEM roller cam, 1 pc rear main, and 4.125" bores... kinda hard to do unless I go with a rocket block or something. So since I still have the 400 block, Im gonna use it for the time being.
I hardly push a street motor over 4000 RPM anyway, so with 6" rods, a hardblok'd block on a 2 pc. rear main, and studs, should hold together with up to 434 cubes. The block has been sonic checked and has a good chunk of meat on the thrust side and no core shift issues. Hasnt even been bored...kinda rare. Going to need a custom cam for this motor too...
Using the smallest bore possible, Im using an eagle crank and rods, and JE pistons for use with 18x heads. Internally balanced in the front so I can use an LT1 fluidampr. This motor will have 23 degree heads on it, unless I cant find a set suitable for what Im doing for less than a set of Brodix 18X.
I dont plan on running it too long or racing it using the factory 400 block. If my plans change I will upgrade and move all the parts to an aftermarket casting.
Tired of sitting on this idea. I go home on leave in Feb and Im getting started putting this thing together. That makes 2 motors Im building...haha! The whole goal isnt maximum HP... it's good streetable HP and torque and that this will work. If it doesnt, hell I got another car I can put it in so no loss there, really. The point is, if this works then it will work with a high RPM variant, based on an aftermarket block, and should solve the 'aftermarket LT1 block' void.
Looking forward to getting out that pushrod length checker and figuring out the length on 18x's with roller lifters, determining if clearance issues exist with the fuel pump boss and A/C compressor, and finding a good oil pan that will fit in the car...
Last edited by dhirocz; 11-22-2006 at 07:16 AM.
11-30-2006, 11:23 AM
#33
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Posts: 61
You can buy this aluminum block already converted to LT1:
http://impalassforum.com/noncgi/ulti...;f=11;t=002148
http://impalassforum.com/noncgi/ulti...;f=11;t=002148
11-30-2006, 01:51 PM
#34
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Location: Hinesville, GA
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I'd like to, but considering the expense of the conversion work on that block, that would be counterproductive. The whole idea here is, to build a bigger engine ON A BUDGET. If I had that kind of money I'd just use a different type of engine.
Weight penalty? Of course. But nothing more than your stock LT1. The whole idea here is to build a bigger engine and not spend any more on it than your pedestrian LT1. Though that conversion is nicer, it's alot more money than I have. All I did was machine a stock timing cover, made a sheet metal adapter and pull some other tricks out of the bag to be able to mount an opti and clear the water pump on a sbc.
Nah. Aside from the weight difference, I'll stick with the standard sbc for this one. 100 lbs isnt worth $5500 or more to duplicate to me. Nice idea though!
Weight penalty? Of course. But nothing more than your stock LT1. The whole idea here is to build a bigger engine and not spend any more on it than your pedestrian LT1. Though that conversion is nicer, it's alot more money than I have. All I did was machine a stock timing cover, made a sheet metal adapter and pull some other tricks out of the bag to be able to mount an opti and clear the water pump on a sbc.
Nah. Aside from the weight difference, I'll stick with the standard sbc for this one. 100 lbs isnt worth $5500 or more to duplicate to me. Nice idea though!
12-03-2006, 11:55 AM
#35
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Location: Hinesville, GA
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I have another thread where I am investigating a big bore bowtie block's specs, GM p/n 10185047. I already did the conversion work on a 400 block so I know it works on earlier motors. However I dont have to 'hold back' so much if this block will work for me so Im considering saving the extra cash for it and the price is right. If this block will support a big bore,this motor will be:
434 ci (7.1L)
Eagle 4340 4" stroke crank, internally balanced, 1 pc. rear main
mahle pistons, 4.155 bore
4340 6" Callies H beam rods
Fidanza aluminum flywheel
lightweight spec stg. III clutch
custom small base circle billet cam
adjustable guideplates
CNC ported Brodix Track 1 heads (315/230 cfm @ .600)
true roller chain under the LT1 timing cover and adapter
Accel single plane intake and 42.5# Lucas injectors @ 50 psi
intakeelbows.com elbow and 58mm throttle body
Keyed LT1 crank hub
fluiddampr
either a 'dummy' distributor or LT1 oil pump drive adapter with a custom boss to mount it
CSR electric water pump and water pump spacers
If it wont cool on the street in the summer I'll toss in a griffin radiator
rest of the components I can transfer from my 383, including the lifters, pushrods and rocker arms.
The only 3 things you will be able to use to tell it's not an LT1 is the intake, valve covers and water pump.
Ideas/suggestions? This looks to be like the build list for the motor and Im ready to get started pending info on the block. I'll make sure I post pictures here
434 ci (7.1L)
Eagle 4340 4" stroke crank, internally balanced, 1 pc. rear main
mahle pistons, 4.155 bore
4340 6" Callies H beam rods
Fidanza aluminum flywheel
lightweight spec stg. III clutch
custom small base circle billet cam
adjustable guideplates
CNC ported Brodix Track 1 heads (315/230 cfm @ .600)
true roller chain under the LT1 timing cover and adapter
Accel single plane intake and 42.5# Lucas injectors @ 50 psi
intakeelbows.com elbow and 58mm throttle body
Keyed LT1 crank hub
fluiddampr
either a 'dummy' distributor or LT1 oil pump drive adapter with a custom boss to mount it
CSR electric water pump and water pump spacers
If it wont cool on the street in the summer I'll toss in a griffin radiator
rest of the components I can transfer from my 383, including the lifters, pushrods and rocker arms.
The only 3 things you will be able to use to tell it's not an LT1 is the intake, valve covers and water pump.
Ideas/suggestions? This looks to be like the build list for the motor and Im ready to get started pending info on the block. I'll make sure I post pictures here
12-05-2006, 11:28 PM
#36
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland, USA
Posts: 473
I for one think this is a very cool idea and project. It might not be everyone's glass of beer but I think it appeals to many. Please keep us posted.
Have you thought of the Hot Rodder cult? Those that are putting bone stock LT1 motors into their fiberglass 32-Ford's? This would appeal to hot rodders because the LT1, (and now LS1), is the engine of choice just becuase of that silly opti-spark, (which I like by the way).
Karl
Have you thought of the Hot Rodder cult? Those that are putting bone stock LT1 motors into their fiberglass 32-Ford's? This would appeal to hot rodders because the LT1, (and now LS1), is the engine of choice just becuase of that silly opti-spark, (which I like by the way).
Karl
12-30-2006, 04:45 AM
#37
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Location: Hinesville, GA
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I ordered a block a few days ago. you can see it here:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/387/...tman-Block.htm
I think I decided to go solid roller on this one. I'm looking more into cranks but I think I'm sold on the Eagle 4" internal 1 piece 4340 crank. Considering that I would pretty much max the bore out on the block by doing the 434, i think I'll live with 'just' a 427 for now to allow for room in case of any fudge ups.
As far as I know, this is the only block that meets the criteria I was looking for that exists, in a 1 piece rear main. I'm trying to build the motor so I can use as many external LT1 replacement parts as possible and to keep it looking somewhat like an LT1. This means I'm going to use my LT1 canton pan, fluiddampr, and aluminum flywheel. Also ordered a CSR aluminum water pump and have spacers to clear the opti thats gonna get mounted to the modified LT1 timing cover.
I'm looking into some heads now. I was considering 18 degree or sb2.2, but this isnt supposed to be a racy engine and I wanted to keep it in an LT1 type configuration, and I didnt want to have to replace my 23 degree stuff or complicate hood clearance issues with a single plane. So I have AI looking into maxing out a set of aftermarket heads to work on this thing. I was thinking dart pro 1 230's or maybe an allpro casting... which will work most likely at the expense of offset shaft mount rocker arms.
More to follow...
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/387/...tman-Block.htm
I think I decided to go solid roller on this one. I'm looking more into cranks but I think I'm sold on the Eagle 4" internal 1 piece 4340 crank. Considering that I would pretty much max the bore out on the block by doing the 434, i think I'll live with 'just' a 427 for now to allow for room in case of any fudge ups.
As far as I know, this is the only block that meets the criteria I was looking for that exists, in a 1 piece rear main. I'm trying to build the motor so I can use as many external LT1 replacement parts as possible and to keep it looking somewhat like an LT1. This means I'm going to use my LT1 canton pan, fluiddampr, and aluminum flywheel. Also ordered a CSR aluminum water pump and have spacers to clear the opti thats gonna get mounted to the modified LT1 timing cover.
I'm looking into some heads now. I was considering 18 degree or sb2.2, but this isnt supposed to be a racy engine and I wanted to keep it in an LT1 type configuration, and I didnt want to have to replace my 23 degree stuff or complicate hood clearance issues with a single plane. So I have AI looking into maxing out a set of aftermarket heads to work on this thing. I was thinking dart pro 1 230's or maybe an allpro casting... which will work most likely at the expense of offset shaft mount rocker arms.
More to follow...
12-30-2006, 05:25 AM
#39
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Location: Hinesville, GA
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Honestly, I dont know. But that's a rather small problem. I called and they couldnt give me an answer either. That is a rather minor issue to me since I can always get standoffs put on it for a factory retainer plate. I plan on using an OEM type LT1 roller cam.
I'm considering making a different oil pump adapter using an old distributor to plug the hole in the intake as well as keeping me from drilling a hole in the valley of my new block, if I can avoid it.
the rest of the problems I can fix as I encounter them. I dont have the block yet.
I'm considering making a different oil pump adapter using an old distributor to plug the hole in the intake as well as keeping me from drilling a hole in the valley of my new block, if I can avoid it.
the rest of the problems I can fix as I encounter them. I dont have the block yet.
12-31-2006, 09:25 AM
#41
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Location: Hinesville, GA
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well it's at least 44 more cubes than I have now... and to me that's alot. I would do a 454 but the WP block doesnt come in a 1 pc seal and I really hate to bore a block that expensive that far for just a few more cubes. That 44 cubes does wonders for driveability though. The whole point here is if I can do it then that takes care of the LT1 aftermarket block deficit. Not to mention, this is more reliable. It's not that much work to get it going, really. I already mocked everything up once on a gen 1 block and it took all of about 2 hours work to convert the parts to work.
I would have gotten that aluminum LT1 block, but it was too expensive for me. i would have been able to get it at $4000 or less to consider it, and I dont want to insult the guy. That block cost alot more than that. Cool idea though. But this way, I can get the shortblock done for less than I'd pay for that block by itself. Im a soldier, I dont make THAT much money
i originally wanted to do a supercharged 454 small block. But that's too much money for me, in the same boat with that donovan block. I love that thing though.
Forgot to mention, the maximum I can see for a small block running this way is 443 cubes and thats just with a larger bore. If I went any longer on the stoke to hit 454, I'd have to find an internal balance crank (which I havent in a 1 pc seal), have one welded and offset ground (too much money), custom crank (too much money), and not to mention, I'd be looking at a block with a raised camshaft which would make modifying the timing cover a NIGHTMARE compared to the one I've got now. One day if I win the lottery I might do it... but I'll do it with some sb2.2 heads instead of 23 degree stuff.
Still, other than the block, the cost is roughtly the same as your average 383 or 396... and some guys on here would probably appreciate the added strength of a bowtie, especially with boost. I'm thinking I might get some large chamber heads to lower the compression so I can do that in the future if I want to. It'll still make the more power than my 383 does now easily.
I am a true believer in bigger cubes. So much so that Im willing the be the guinea pig. I like custom stuff. After I do this I'm gonna try to do an AWD conversion wich ought to be a challenge. I like challenges =)
I would have gotten that aluminum LT1 block, but it was too expensive for me. i would have been able to get it at $4000 or less to consider it, and I dont want to insult the guy. That block cost alot more than that. Cool idea though. But this way, I can get the shortblock done for less than I'd pay for that block by itself. Im a soldier, I dont make THAT much money
i originally wanted to do a supercharged 454 small block. But that's too much money for me, in the same boat with that donovan block. I love that thing though.
Forgot to mention, the maximum I can see for a small block running this way is 443 cubes and thats just with a larger bore. If I went any longer on the stoke to hit 454, I'd have to find an internal balance crank (which I havent in a 1 pc seal), have one welded and offset ground (too much money), custom crank (too much money), and not to mention, I'd be looking at a block with a raised camshaft which would make modifying the timing cover a NIGHTMARE compared to the one I've got now. One day if I win the lottery I might do it... but I'll do it with some sb2.2 heads instead of 23 degree stuff.
Still, other than the block, the cost is roughtly the same as your average 383 or 396... and some guys on here would probably appreciate the added strength of a bowtie, especially with boost. I'm thinking I might get some large chamber heads to lower the compression so I can do that in the future if I want to. It'll still make the more power than my 383 does now easily.
I am a true believer in bigger cubes. So much so that Im willing the be the guinea pig. I like custom stuff. After I do this I'm gonna try to do an AWD conversion wich ought to be a challenge. I like challenges =)
Last edited by dhirocz; 12-31-2006 at 09:50 AM.
01-15-2007, 03:21 PM
#42
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 1,192
Good news... if I get everything worked out in time for next month, the motor will be together and ready to install. I'm actually building 2 since I managed to be able to put one together rather cheap. The first one I'm putting together which you will see is based on a factory high nickel block, 2 bolt studded, 4" eagle crank, 6" rods, and uses... get this... and LT1 camcore. It has standoffs added to the sides of the front cam journal to use a factory cam retainer plate. I'm using the new GMPP roller lifter retainers instead of the factory spider tray arrangement. All the vital measurements have been made. The deck was plugged and it was sonic checked. Turned out to be very thick for a 400 (almost .200"!) and will have a short fill of hardblok. No core shift issues in this block which was kind of suprising for a 400. Motor will use a gen 1 single plane and ported dart pro 1 230's. Even though it's in pretty good shape for a 400, it will only be run on nuts.
Goal for this one is to have a fair idle, make tons of midrange torque, and make max power no higher than 6200 RPM so it can be daily driven. Looking for similar manners to my old 224/230 350 LT1, maybe a little more aggressive.
Im looking for 500+rwhp and similar torque without the lumpyness of a large cam or the issues of a blower. This is all N/A and should do it easily. Now all I have to do is get the heads done so I can send off the flow numbers and engine spec sheet to get a custom cam made for it. (bret are you listening? lol) This one will require some pan work in addition to the timing cover and water pump spacers since it has a 2 pc seal. Using the 1 pc block(which I eventually will do), it will be able to use an LT1 type pan.
Depending on the success on this motor, I will eventually build another on the block I ordered, 1pc seal, using a far better cylinder head to make more power further up in the powerband. That motor will be a 427 since I dont like like boring blocks that dont need it...
I need a vert chassis to move my 383 and all that junk I'll be pulling out into eventually.
I'll post pics next month of the progress I make so you guys can have something to see rather than just imagine. It'll still be on the stand but I hope I can get the motor together at least as a longblock (depending on the heads). Finishing the shortblock shouldnt be an issue.
Any guesses on power? I dont have flow numbers back yet but they should flow on par with out of the box 18 degree brodix heads with no problem. (the 18X std)
Goal for this one is to have a fair idle, make tons of midrange torque, and make max power no higher than 6200 RPM so it can be daily driven. Looking for similar manners to my old 224/230 350 LT1, maybe a little more aggressive.
Im looking for 500+rwhp and similar torque without the lumpyness of a large cam or the issues of a blower. This is all N/A and should do it easily. Now all I have to do is get the heads done so I can send off the flow numbers and engine spec sheet to get a custom cam made for it. (bret are you listening? lol) This one will require some pan work in addition to the timing cover and water pump spacers since it has a 2 pc seal. Using the 1 pc block(which I eventually will do), it will be able to use an LT1 type pan.
Depending on the success on this motor, I will eventually build another on the block I ordered, 1pc seal, using a far better cylinder head to make more power further up in the powerband. That motor will be a 427 since I dont like like boring blocks that dont need it...
I need a vert chassis to move my 383 and all that junk I'll be pulling out into eventually.
I'll post pics next month of the progress I make so you guys can have something to see rather than just imagine. It'll still be on the stand but I hope I can get the motor together at least as a longblock (depending on the heads). Finishing the shortblock shouldnt be an issue.
Any guesses on power? I dont have flow numbers back yet but they should flow on par with out of the box 18 degree brodix heads with no problem. (the 18X std)
Last edited by dhirocz; 01-15-2007 at 03:36 PM.
03-17-2007, 05:44 PM
#44
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 1,192
Back again!
Been dealing with plenty of life's little problems and being a daddy so I had to put this project on the back burner. Got progress made. I ended up falling into building 2 different engines... a street 440ci and a street/strip 434ci engine. I recently bought a C5 so I dont have to worry about streetability as much. Right now the 434 is getting done first.
So far I have the heads and intake off being ported, the intake, timing cover and oil pan are getting powdercoated black after they are done. Block is a Dart Little M 400 SBC main with splayed caps. Heads will be studded. Compression is right at 11.5:1, quench at .040", flywheel is aluminum, though I havent decided on a clutch yet. I will decide while the trans is getting a new 30 spline OPS
Have no flow numbers yet but supposedly the flow numbers are in the 33x range. Good for me since I've decided to go solid roller with Jesel Shaft mounts. Waiting to get the flow chart to order a custom cam for it.
Aside from the cam retainer plate, so far it's a bolt on. Accessories are a go as well. But I'm back overseas as well so progress have officially stopped for awhile
Not to mention when I get back I will be too busy to do anything until around christmas.
So far the total investment here is about $5000. This is the heads, block, crank, intake, injectors, pistons, rods, and machine work. I love ebay Should be right around $6500 after it's in and running. Any guesses on power?
Now I gotta find somebody willing to tune it. Scares everybody off! Wonder why lol
Been dealing with plenty of life's little problems and being a daddy so I had to put this project on the back burner. Got progress made. I ended up falling into building 2 different engines... a street 440ci and a street/strip 434ci engine. I recently bought a C5 so I dont have to worry about streetability as much. Right now the 434 is getting done first.
So far I have the heads and intake off being ported, the intake, timing cover and oil pan are getting powdercoated black after they are done. Block is a Dart Little M 400 SBC main with splayed caps. Heads will be studded. Compression is right at 11.5:1, quench at .040", flywheel is aluminum, though I havent decided on a clutch yet. I will decide while the trans is getting a new 30 spline OPS
Have no flow numbers yet but supposedly the flow numbers are in the 33x range. Good for me since I've decided to go solid roller with Jesel Shaft mounts. Waiting to get the flow chart to order a custom cam for it.
Aside from the cam retainer plate, so far it's a bolt on. Accessories are a go as well. But I'm back overseas as well so progress have officially stopped for awhile
Not to mention when I get back I will be too busy to do anything until around christmas.So far the total investment here is about $5000. This is the heads, block, crank, intake, injectors, pistons, rods, and machine work. I love ebay
Should be right around $6500 after it's in and running. Any guesses on power? Now I gotta find somebody willing to tune it. Scares everybody off! Wonder why lol
03-18-2007, 12:01 AM
#45
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 747
Back again!
Been dealing with plenty of life's little problems and being a daddy so I had to put this project on the back burner. Got progress made. I ended up falling into building 2 different engines... a street 440ci and a street/strip 434ci engine. I recently bought a C5 so I dont have to worry about streetability as much. Right now the 434 is getting done first.
So far I have the heads and intake off being ported, the intake, timing cover and oil pan are getting powdercoated black after they are done. Block is a Dart Little M 400 SBC main with splayed caps. Heads will be studded. Compression is right at 11.5:1, quench at .040", flywheel is aluminum, though I havent decided on a clutch yet. I will decide while the trans is getting a new 30 spline OPS
Have no flow numbers yet but supposedly the flow numbers are in the 33x range. Good for me since I've decided to go solid roller with Jesel Shaft mounts. Waiting to get the flow chart to order a custom cam for it.
Aside from the cam retainer plate, so far it's a bolt on. Accessories are a go as well. But I'm back overseas as well so progress have officially stopped for awhile Not to mention when I get back I will be too busy to do anything until around christmas.
So far the total investment here is about $5000. This is the heads, block, crank, intake, injectors, pistons, rods, and machine work. I love ebay Should be right around $6500 after it's in and running. Any guesses on power?
Now I gotta find somebody willing to tune it. Scares everybody off! Wonder why lol
Been dealing with plenty of life's little problems and being a daddy so I had to put this project on the back burner. Got progress made. I ended up falling into building 2 different engines... a street 440ci and a street/strip 434ci engine. I recently bought a C5 so I dont have to worry about streetability as much. Right now the 434 is getting done first.
So far I have the heads and intake off being ported, the intake, timing cover and oil pan are getting powdercoated black after they are done. Block is a Dart Little M 400 SBC main with splayed caps. Heads will be studded. Compression is right at 11.5:1, quench at .040", flywheel is aluminum, though I havent decided on a clutch yet. I will decide while the trans is getting a new 30 spline OPS
Have no flow numbers yet but supposedly the flow numbers are in the 33x range. Good for me since I've decided to go solid roller with Jesel Shaft mounts. Waiting to get the flow chart to order a custom cam for it.
Aside from the cam retainer plate, so far it's a bolt on. Accessories are a go as well. But I'm back overseas as well so progress have officially stopped for awhile
Not to mention when I get back I will be too busy to do anything until around christmas.So far the total investment here is about $5000. This is the heads, block, crank, intake, injectors, pistons, rods, and machine work. I love ebay
Should be right around $6500 after it's in and running. Any guesses on power? Now I gotta find somebody willing to tune it. Scares everybody off! Wonder why lol