anyone know anything about this engine...?

good or bad?

i was looking at the fastburn (zz5) upgrading the cam and using a miniram instead of a carb?

good or bad idea?

i'm looking for around 400/400 at the wheels with a full exhaust, tunning, and proper intake.....is it possible?

can this setup support a ati intercooled setup at 10-12 psi?

would there be a better way to go about this setup and not going over 7,000 on the engine alone?

 

The 385 FB uses hypereutectic pistons and PM rods so I wouldn't wanna be shooting that much boost to it. And considering your goal, you don't need it. The FB puts out 430 hp as it is. To hit the 400 rwhp mark you'll need a hotter cam. The CC306 or something comparable will get you there. Why not just go with a 4bbl throttle body on that setup? The Mini-ram is way overpriced for what it is.
Are you planning to run OBD1/OBD2 or what??

-Mindgame

 

Yeah, don't boost it. I like Mindgame's TB idea. 7000 is about 500 too high, IMO.

Almost 430 hp at the flywheel if your use the HOT cam and lifters.

Lifted from GM's catalog:

P/N 12496769 - Fast Burn 385 $4,075.00

Technical Information


With more ZZZ through ZZ4 crate engines sold over the years than any other high performance crate engine, it only makes sense that GMPP would continue to improve that successful family of engines. The new Fast Burn uses the proven ZZ4 shortblock and ads to it the Fast Burn cylinder heads for 385 value packed horsepower. With value in mind, the Fast Burn uses stamped rocker arms and the same ZZ4 camshaft that powers thousands of hot rods. The Fast Burn is an excellent choice for the basis of a custom engine. Its strong forged steel crankshaft and forged powdered metal connecting rods have been proven to 500 horsepower. And its Fast Burn cylinder heads are hungry for a little more camshaft, approximately 425 horsepower at 6000 rpm is achievable by adding the HOT cam and 1.6 self aligning rocker arms.

Value priced small-block power, great durability, easy power upgrades. It’s all that and more from the "More Than Just Power" people at GMPP.




Fast Burn 385 Technical Information
Horsepower 385 @ 5600 RPM
Torque 385 @ 4000 RPM
Max. Recommended RPM 5800
Compression Ratio 9.6:1
Partial Engine 12561723
Block 10105123 Four bolt main, cast iron
Crankshaft 12556307
Connecting Rods 10108688 PM rods
Pistons 10159436 High silicon aluminum with offset pins
Piston Rings 12528817
Camshaft 10185071 Hydraulic Roller
Lift .474/.510"
Duration @.050, 2.08/.221
Cylinder Heads 12464298 Includes valves and springs
Intake Valves 12555331 2.00"
Exhaust Valves 12551313 1.55"
Valve Springs 12551483
Rocker Arms 10089648 Steel 1.5
Intake Manifold 12366573 Aluminum dual plane, no EGR
12496820 Aluminum dual plane, w/EGR and dual carburetor pad
Valve Lash Zero
Spark Plugs MR 43LTS Gap @ .045
Fuel 92 Octane
Ignition Timing 32º total @ 4000 RPM with vacuum advance disconnected


Now, another relatively inexpensive way to get 450++ or so at the flywheel (400+ rwhp) is use the GM 383 short block, FB heads and a single plane 4-bbl TB system like Edelbrock or Holley.
(E'brock has a Vortec/FB raised port manifold). See Chevy's cam recommendation below

Lotsa bang for the buck.

My $.02


P/N:12498332 - Engine Parital 383ci $3,083.33

What a great starting point to build your own hot rod 383 engine. The only major items you will need to complete your engine are cam, lifters, cylinder heads, and manifold.

This 383 ci partial engine is used on all 383 crate engines.


The partial engine includes the following items:


P/N 88959106 - Block, 383 stroker after machining - Q/P 1
P/N 12489436 - Crankshaft, 383 stroker - Q/P 1
P/N 10120990 - Bearing standard front & intermediate - Q/P 4
P/N 10120993 - Bearing standard rear - Q/P 1
P/N 12523924 - Bearing standard connecting rod - Q/P 8
P/N 14088784 - Sprocket, crankshaft - Q/P 1
P/N 14088765 - Flexplate assembly - Q/P 1
P/N 12497624 - Rod, connecting single 383 - Q/P 8
P/N 12489437 - Piston & pin assembly standard 383 - Q/P 8


P/N 12522848 - Ring set standard 383 stroker - Q/P 8
P/N 12555283 - Pump assembly, oil - Q/P 1
P/N 12550042 - Pump assembly (screen) - Q/P 1
P/N 3764552 - Shaft, oil pump drive - Q/P 1
P/N 12557558 - Pan assembly, oil - Q/P 1
P/N 10108676 - Gasket, oil pan - Q/P 1
P/N 12562818 - Cover, front timing (plastic)- Q/P 1
P/N 12498008 - Balancer - Q/P 1


The partial engine does not include camshaft, lifters, timing chain or cam sprocket. The oil pan is loosely assembled on the block. So it can be disassembled without destroying the pan gasket.




Fast Burn heads:

Price Qty.
12464298 - Cylinder Head "Aluminum Fast Burn" $575.00 each

This head can be used on any 1958-99 283-400ci small block Chevrolet V8 engine with conventional water flow design, but this head cannot be used on any LT1, LT4, or LS1 engines that are designed with reverse water flow. The all new 23? Fast Burn small block cylinder head has the highest performance potential of any 23? small block head developed by GM. The Fast Burn head combines new technologies with the best of GM motorsports and production cylinder head technologies. The design creates tremendous power on engines from 350 to over 400ci. The name "Fast Burn" refers to the head's ability to quickly and completely burn the air fuel mixture, resulting in higher cylinder pressures and more power. The shape of the combustion chamber is designed to accomplish this "Fast Burn" with flat top pistons, so flat top pistons are recommended with this cylinder head. It is not recommended that the combustion chamber be modified or reshaped, as this could decrease the efficiency of the chamber. This head is designed with a .400" deck. This new technology removes material from other portions of the head, allowing for considerably larger ports and water jacketing. The deck also provides unsurpassed clamping force for cylinder head gasket retention. The super rigid .400" deck thickness can be machined down to .340" safely for all-out performance applications and higher compression. Other ways to adjust compression ratio with the Fast Burn head include top of piston design and piston installed height. Unlike the GM Performance Parts Bow Tie heads and most aftermarket performance heads, this head requires no additional porting for maximum performance. In the past, the industry has added material to heads to allow substantial porting, which can result in poor "out-of-box" performance and additional cost. The Fast Burn head utilizes GM Performance Parts' Cast-Ported technology, which means that improvements in flow, combustion and cylinder fill were incorporated into the machining tooling, achieving maximum performance "out-of-box". While additional porting is not recommended, light sanding to remove minor casting imperfections and polishing of combustion chambers and exhaust ports is acceptable. All Fast Burn heads are CNC machined to exacting tolerances, thus eliminating the need for "blue-printing" of machined tolerances, resulting in a cost savings and unsurpassed "out-of-box" performance. This head has taller than typical rocker cover rails, providing exceptional clearance for rocker arms and valve train supports typically used in all out performance applications. The rocker rails are CNC machined for superior rocker cover gasket sealing. Front head faces are drilled and tapped for typical accessory drive bracketry. The Fast Burn head accepts both center bolt and early style four bolt flange mount valve covers. Signature etched with GM Performance Parts logo. Intake manifold mating surfaces are drilled and tapped for both Vortec and conventional raised port style manifolds. "D" shaped 78cc exhaust port and runners provide adequate flow for applications well in excess of 500 hp. Raised runner (.240" higher than conventional 23? head) intake ports with 210cc ports and runners provide adequate flow for applications well in excess of 500 hp. Raising the top of the intake valves provides a better "line-of-sight" through the port and onto the back side of the intake valves. The 62cc fast burn combustion chambers - the most efficient ever to be incorporated on a GM Performance Parts cylinder head - produce higher cylinder pressures by burning more of the available fuel before the piston starts its power stroke downward. By more completely using available fuel, the engine produces more power per quantity of fuel. The 2.00" hollow stem lightweight intake valves are utilized to reduce loads on valve train systems at high rpm's. The 1.55" sodium filled lightweight exhaust valves have all the same benefits of the hollow stem intake valves, and additionally they are able to perform under extremely high-temperature performance applications. This head has specially designed "deep" valve seats which can accommodate up to 2.02" intake valves / 1.600" exhaust valves. Lightweight valve spring retainers combine with the lightweight valves to help ensure long-term high rpm durability. Screw-in 3/8" rocker studs are used, and accept most available roller rocker arms. Uses all conventional "low cost" readily available 23? rocker arms and valve train supports and hardware. This head is a bolt-on 30 hp increase when used on our ZZ4 crate engine. When tested on a 383 ci small block engine with 9.5 to 1 compression ratio and .540" lift roller cam, single plane intake manifold and 750 cfm Holley carburetor, the Fast Burn heads produced 497 hp at an incredibly low 5800 rpm. Total ignition timing to be used on a Fast Burn head will vary based on a number of factors, but most configurations made the most power with 34 to 36 degrees of total timing.
Technical Notes: Use intake manifold P/N 12496820, P/N 12366573, 12496822, or 10051103 with the Fast Burn cylinder head. Use intake manifold gasket P/N 12529094 and eight attaching bolts P/N 12550027. Use Fel-Pro exhaust gasket P/N 1470 for these Fast Burn heads (some trimming may be required for your application. This head includes intake valves P/N 12555331, exhaust valves P/N 12551313, valve spring cap P/N 10212808, and valve springs P/N 12551483.

 

i would like to use my obd1 SD and just burn the chip to match my needs.

would a 383 short block like that descirbed work well with the fastburn heads you think?

i want to stay fuel injected....

i was just looking this way because i was told that i would have no problem making 400/400 at the wheels with the setup and i could get a little closer to my 600/600 goal with a supercharger.

although i think the plan was for a different cam than the lt4 hot cam....i think it might be called a zz9 from tpis? i know it's from tpis though. then using 1.6 comp rr's.


can i ask you what you would suggest to do to get those kind of numbers but have a streetable combo and stay under 7,000?

thanks for the suggestions guys it's greatly appreciated!!

 

350 Cubes
210CC intake ports

I'd do nothing less than a Comp Cam Extreme Energy 236/242 Hyd. Roller with 1.6RRs. Possbly even a Hydra-Rev kit from AFR. I havent seen actual flow numbers for the FastBurn heads and that's why I didn't buy them when I was looking for Vortec style heads. GM has some flow numbers floating around but they say in small print that they are "prototype figures". How the hell does that help anyone? Either way, i would bet they flow as well as a good CNC ported LT1 head. Somewhere in the 255-265 CFM peak range at .600" lift. Through an auto trans with the typical exhaust and intake stuff to match the heads/cam, properly tuned i would bet on 350-375 rwhp.

I haven't heard of any adapter plates for bolting a normal SBC intake(like the MiniRam is) onto Vortec pattern heads. My choice is the RamJet intake that was made to fit FastBurn/Vortec style heads. Nobody around here has played with it yet so hopefully it works out like I think it will.

Have you checked out buying a GM shortblock, AFR 210 CC race ready heads, and a big cam of your choice? Price may be about the same and then bolting a MiniRam up top would be "normal" since the heads would match the intake bolt pattern, and 400 at the tires would be easier i think.

I have you figured out on motor to make big power but if you want to push 12 PSI into it, i'd do a whole new gameplan I wouldn't be trusting a Gm crate motor for such abuse. It might work, ya never know! Stuff like that would make me sweat everytime I eased into the throttle

 

And yes, that 383 shortblock would be very cool to start with.

Add your own 210 AFR heads ~ $1400?
Cam Kit, lifters etc ~ $1000
MiniRam and the Like ~$1500?
Tuning ~$???

That's 400 at the wheels Have AFR or Comp reccomend the camshaft and tell em you're not messin' around

And Who needs a blower, Jeff? Looks like you'll be King ThirdGen this year

Me, Joe, Chris, Eric, Mike, and even 1Bad86Z...we'll all just sit back and envy the power

 

you know i'm not like that denny!

i'm not even trying to get close to 1Bad86Z, scott's doing some crazy things..

i just want something that is very respectable street terms and i won't have to work on it every time i want to driver her. i'm pretty open to just about anything and everything except for a few key things. i just want to make sure i can keep up and not be left behind.

the total cost of everything must stay around what i stated.

i must use the same wiring and computer (chip programming is a must though)

that's it.

should be easy you would think right? we'll see i guess. main reason i've been looking into crate type setups is alot of shops in my area try to rape people for their work and the ones that don't do 50/50 jobs.

email me sometime denny, i'd like to converse with you over some things! i heard you were planning on a few yourself you know.

 

Just want to jump in here and talk about cam and head flow/ports.

350 cubes, 210cc port and a 236/242 cam. Your never going to hear me say that. Here is why........


Back in the day when people hogged out heads to achive better flow they killed the velocity and found most of their flow gains in the higher lift ranges. Therefore what was needed was a larger cam to produce the amount of lift they needed to take advantage of this flow.

Not that I want to let the cat out of the bag, but going to a larger cam with better heads is not always needed. Very good ports, ones that have great port velocity numbers and flow numbers that in the midrange lifts (.300-.500) are much better than average are not going to need a large cam.

Now what I mean by a large cam is duration numbers @ .050" lift to be large. What we really want to look at is how much flow area we open the valve. You can do this 2 ways, with lift or duration. A large duration cam will be good on valve springs and bad on low speed engine operation. A large lift cam or one that has more rocker arm will be bad on valve springs but have great low speed driveablity. Now you can go to a low duration low lift cam and have neither problem, but also no power.

I would guess this is for a street car. My experience with engines in that cube range with that big of heads is not that they need that much duration. In fact the high end for me would be a 234/234, I would be much more likely to go with a 224/236 or even better a 214/224 (all Comp 3190 series lobes) Some people will say you can't make power with that little duration. Well think that. With 365 cubes, 215cc ports that flow 300cfm a 214/224 cam with 1.6:1 rockers is a easy 550hp if you match everything else up right. Granted I have some heafty springs in there, but a spring checker and a $135 worth of springs gives alot of TQ, instant throttle response and smoothe idle and no stalling. So if all I have to give up to get the power I want is some valve springs now and then, I will.

Chuck Rideck had a post back here about a formula he uses to compare head flow. He used the lower lift points twice in the formula and the max lift point once, and that makes more than enough sense. Mid lift flow is where the power is on a street engine. The more extreme you go the more power you will find, you just need to balance that off with decent street driving traits.

So my point is...... (because I think I got a little lost here) is that a well developed port even one that is bigger than normal will produce some great results with a smaller cam because the amount of airflow that will enter the cylinder at every lift is better not as much cam is needed to supply that amount of air. When you have a week set of cylinder heads then more cam is needed. If you ever see the cams that are run in classes with a non ported head rule or a stock head rule, they will run alot more valve area (either with lift or duration, but most likely duration since the high lift flow is not there) that is because the heads are not as good as a well ported one that is the same size.

BTW the fastburns are a very good casting and with some porting they can be awesome heads, but are still great out of the box. I wish someone would do a CNC program on them they could be an easy 300cfm in a 220cc package.

Bret

 

check your pm bret.

 

http://www.the-direct-source.com/pro...em=13&mitem=22
Mike Adams built one for IHRA Top Stock class and got 532hp out of it. Interesting reading!
October issue of Hot Rod Mag.
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