Kevlar bellhousings for LT1 T56s?
09-21-2003, 12:56 PM
#1
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Kevlar bellhousings for LT1 T56s?
The McLeod modular bellhousing must be the best kept secret in the world, because they evidently aren't going out of their way to advertise its availability. None of the McLeod vendors that I've seen list the bellhousing or price, and although I haven't gotten around to calling them directly yet, it's nice to know ballpark price before jumping in. It literally scares me that they don't list a price anywhere. I may have spent a bundle on my car, but I'm not going to spend $1,000+ on a damn bellhousing. It's the principle of the thing. 
So last night I'm thumbing through a JEGS catalog and I notice that they have SFI-approved scatter shields for TH350/400, etc. made from composite materials, and I had an idea...
What about making a Kevlar/carbon fiber bellhousing for the LT1 T56? If the original bellhousing was used as a mold, you could duplicate the thickness which should (in theory) give it plenty of strength to be a supporting bridge between the engine and transmission (with inserts for the bolts). Or, alternatively, what about coating the outside of the original bellhousing with the material?
Just a crazy idea I had. I'll probably end up going with the McLeod bellhousing because I need the clearance I'll get by eliminating the slave cylinder (hydraulic throw-out conversion instead), but I was just wondering if we have any materials experts in the house who could give me reasons why this wouldn't (or would) work. Wrapping stock bellhousings would certainly be a cost effective solution. For those of us doing conversions where clearance is at a premium, a replacement bellhousing would also be cool.
So last night I'm thumbing through a JEGS catalog and I notice that they have SFI-approved scatter shields for TH350/400, etc. made from composite materials, and I had an idea...
What about making a Kevlar/carbon fiber bellhousing for the LT1 T56? If the original bellhousing was used as a mold, you could duplicate the thickness which should (in theory) give it plenty of strength to be a supporting bridge between the engine and transmission (with inserts for the bolts). Or, alternatively, what about coating the outside of the original bellhousing with the material?
Just a crazy idea I had. I'll probably end up going with the McLeod bellhousing because I need the clearance I'll get by eliminating the slave cylinder (hydraulic throw-out conversion instead), but I was just wondering if we have any materials experts in the house who could give me reasons why this wouldn't (or would) work. Wrapping stock bellhousings would certainly be a cost effective solution. For those of us doing conversions where clearance is at a premium, a replacement bellhousing would also be cool.
09-21-2003, 02:35 PM
#2
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Interesting thought, Jim.
Maybe the McLeod modular isn't quite ready for production yet. Until the manufacturer has a handle on production quantities to expect, it's difficult to price.
Kevlar, if I recall correctly, when used in a flak vest or to contain high velocity bits, it's used in the fabric or flexible mode, not molded with resin into a structural member like a bellhousing.
Carbon composite is extremely strong, but tends to shatter when it reaches it's failure point. That wouldn't be too good for a scattershield.
Steel, as used in bellhousings will deform locally when the exploding flywheel and clutch bits hit it, but it will keep them from getting loose.
Wrapping and anchoring a stock flywheel housing with a flakvest would be tricky given the tapered shape. If the flywheel exploded it would take the flywheel housing with it, which adds to the shrapnel and effectively cuts the engine/transmission structure in two. Not a pretty thought.
FWIW, a 12-13 inch diameter flywheel and clutch disintegrating at 8-10,000 rpm is a lot more explosive power, and higher velocity bits than the 6 inch (or so) diameter transmission rotating bits. About twice the velocity and 4 times the energy.
Torque converters, by their closed torroidal design, and formed and welded steel shape are almost like their own scattershields.
Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but just guessing why we may have not seen such things on the market.
My $.02
Maybe the McLeod modular isn't quite ready for production yet. Until the manufacturer has a handle on production quantities to expect, it's difficult to price.
Kevlar, if I recall correctly, when used in a flak vest or to contain high velocity bits, it's used in the fabric or flexible mode, not molded with resin into a structural member like a bellhousing.
Carbon composite is extremely strong, but tends to shatter when it reaches it's failure point. That wouldn't be too good for a scattershield.
Steel, as used in bellhousings will deform locally when the exploding flywheel and clutch bits hit it, but it will keep them from getting loose.
Wrapping and anchoring a stock flywheel housing with a flakvest would be tricky given the tapered shape. If the flywheel exploded it would take the flywheel housing with it, which adds to the shrapnel and effectively cuts the engine/transmission structure in two. Not a pretty thought.
FWIW, a 12-13 inch diameter flywheel and clutch disintegrating at 8-10,000 rpm is a lot more explosive power, and higher velocity bits than the 6 inch (or so) diameter transmission rotating bits. About twice the velocity and 4 times the energy.
Torque converters, by their closed torroidal design, and formed and welded steel shape are almost like their own scattershields.
Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but just guessing why we may have not seen such things on the market.
My $.02
09-22-2003, 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by OldSStroker
Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but just guessing why we may have not seen such things on the market.
Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but just guessing why we may have not seen such things on the market.
Here's the link to the CSI flexplate shield, BTW...
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...04&prmenbr=361
The only problem (for some) with the McLeod modular bellhousing for the LT1 is that it has no provisions for an external slave cylinder and therefore requires their hydraulic throw-out conversion kit and an LS1 push-type clutch. This isn't a problem for me, and in fact, turns out to be a benefit, but with the absence of a true bolt-on LT1 T56 SFI-approved bellhousing, I was just curious about the use of composites after seeing the flexplate shield.
09-22-2003, 06:55 AM
#5
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Building an effective and durable composite bellhousing would be a rather difficult task. Kevlar is damn tough as previously mentioned, but isn't all that stiff. Weaving it together with carbon fiber works well to balance toughness and stiffness (plus, the yellow/black combination looks pretty cool). But, you've still got the issue of the clamping loads generated by the fasteners, which will tend to deform the material over time. Aluminum inserts make perfect sense, until you either rip them loose from the composite material or run into problems with galvonic corrosion (as the carbon fiber conducts electricity).
It's also difficult to find a production method that allows for low piece price without huge tooling and capital investments.
Sure would be damn cool, though
It's also difficult to find a production method that allows for low piece price without huge tooling and capital investments.
Sure would be damn cool, though
09-22-2003, 11:57 AM
#7
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Jim, I have been working on something similar for the last year. I have one modeled that utilizes kevlar/aladyne sandwiched in aluminum. Not sure if it is going to go anywhere, but needless to say it is something that I have rolled around in my head for years.
Alot of the hold up is plain capitol.....its gonna be $2500 just to get one prototype built from my design.
Jason
Alot of the hold up is plain capitol.....its gonna be $2500 just to get one prototype built from my design.
Jason
09-22-2003, 12:44 PM
#8
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Originally posted by jimlab
Not with the clearance I've got.
Not with the clearance I've got.
http://www.racingclutches.com/content/product.asp
09-22-2003, 04:21 PM
#10
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Originally posted by JordonMusser
really? the blankets are pretty thin.
really? the blankets are pretty thin.
http://home.gci.net/~jimlab/images/Cradle/P9140023.jpg
http://home.gci.net/~jimlab/images/Cradle/P9140024.jpg
It would also be nice to get the slave cylinder out of the way so I can run the driver's side header through that area...
09-24-2003, 03:24 AM
#11
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I'm going to attempt to convert to a long finger style clutch this winter. I should be able to use a Standard SFI Chevy Bell housing with a T56 adaptor plate and a Hydraulic TOB. Mcleod says it will require an LS1 input shaft on my T56 which is no problem and a ministarter. I'm going to try to run a Soft Loc adjustable PP and a Sintered Iron disk. We had a group of racers called Pro-Stick come to our track this year and they are all running iron disks. Pretty impressive to watch them dump the clutch at 7400 RPM, yank the front end about 3 feet, and never even chirp the rear tires. Red at Mcleod says this conversion is possible in an LT1 F-body so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna give itr a whirl this winter instead of just rebuilding the Street Twin again.
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