I only get faster in my 96. With a more dependable tranny I will get that 8/10's back next summer @ LaJunta. There are a couple of turns at tracks here in Colo. that even Kyle gets a wheel off the ground.
Mitch, tell the Texas Dudes we WILL be at the COMMA race on Memorial Day at Hallet.

 

Well, good job guys, you're confusing the hell out of me now!!

I mean, for years and years, all I've known (or "thought" I've known) is "stiffer suspension handles better", and that's why the aftermarket has all these larger sway bars, stiffer springs, shocks, etc., etc., etc. NOW you're saying use smaller, less stiff sway bars (front), NO sway bar in the back, soft springs ........................

... I'm confused!!

Ok, but obviously you guys are very serious into this, and therefore have LOTS of time behind the wheel to test out all these setups, and you know what a big difference the "small" differences make.

For an "average" / "amateur" driver, out for (I'll call it "casual") lapping, or possibly competing in Solo I, but not really for the actual "competition" of it, is a traditional "stiffer" suspension going to be the best route to go with?

It almost seems that the setup isn't really the make it or break it variable ..... it's the driver .

 

Well....you need to consider the source. Most of us talking here are talking about DEDICATED race cars....cars that never see the street. So, when they/I say "soft" it would still be "stiff" in comparison to most street cars.

Your first goal when taking your car out on these types of events should be safety, and driving within what you have. I.E. put some good brake pads in, do all the maintenance and see what she can do. After that, make changes gradually, one at a time, and see if you are moving in a positive direction. The setup DEFINATELY has a large role in driving fast. Look to Mitch's and my claims that a simple setup change led to us driving 3+ seconds a lap faster INSTANTLY! That is a MASSIVE improvement in road racing...

 

yep, soft / stiff is all relative. an ideal set-up for a street car would be like 550-600 front w/ 175-200 rear. use the swaybars to tune w/.
being a race car does not automatically dictate more spring, nor does more tire.
my term "softer" means softer that what we all have been told to run by some fast guys from the west coast.

 

RayBob ... COMMA is on my calendar ...

I feel your pain ... just about the time I get a car that feels like it "handles", I, drive, read, listen and/or see about something that is "new".

Try it and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

A good example is Ray Bob and Randy trying no rear sway bar and getting great results. 2 others, who haven't posted in here, tried it and hated it.

You have to check your ego and realize that there is always something or someone faster or better than you and experiment ...

Bottom line it's about understanding ... understanding what the weight of the car is doing as it negotiates the WHOLE turn and changing the components that control that weight movement to better suit your driving style. Stiffer springs and softer bars ... softer bars and stiffer springs ... and then the shocks that allow that movement ... it's the combo!

There is no cookie cutter set up out there. An individual's driving style will dictate what works best for him/her.

It's getting to a point in mine and Glenn's case that 1/2 of air pressure in a single tire makes an enormous difference in control ... maybe not necessarily lap times, but car control under race conditions.

And it's not about cutting FTD like in autocross, it's the chess game you have with 10 or 15 competitors and how to keep them behind you.

 

I am already looking forward to seeing all of you Texas boys and have promised our newbie RMR AI/CMC guys they will have a blast.

Very well said Mitch!

 

Saying it is one thing ....

 

...still haven't gotten a PM from you "soft" guys on spring/bar rates.....

I have told you both of my set ups...I just wanna know what we are discussin' here, as I WILL NOT be going back to 650/175... ;-)

 

I know ... and the reason for no PM :P

 

....so....you are saying that you guys ARE that soft on springs??????

I am shocked....my car was nearly UNDRIVEABLE down there....

 

i sent you a PM, did you not get it?

 

I just got it....thanks!

 

Ok, that clears that up!
I know! For the couple times I've been on the track, looking at the spread of the #'s, from fastest to slowest, I've always been in about the middle (I'm actually "proud" of that! ) but there are a couple OBVIOUS differences between the faster cars and me ..... TIRES, and DRIVERS!! (yes, I can actually admit that ).

I do realize that as well. I mean, I just love the rush of being out on the track, but then it's only human nature to get that "competitive bug" when you start seeing everybody's lap times posted! And I think what you're saying about there being no "cookie cutter" setup is true ... otherwise why would all (or most) suspension components be adjustable??

Case in point, a few years ago, my Dad's buddy got into stock car racing. He never raced before, but bought a "winning" super late model off of a very accomplished driver. The "car" was setup "perfect" (according to its previous owner). Our friend couldn't drive it worth a damn, and couldn't win a race. Finally, they tinkered with suspension and tire stagger ... the tires made all the difference in the world! He started winning races consistantly! Then the guy he bought the car from was checking out his setup, told him he had it "all wrong ... how can you drive like that?" ... so he switched the setup, and couldn't drive again!! (obviously, they had to set it back up for him again after that).

 

Only those Texas boys.

Me and Al - 800/200. I'm on UE, I think Al has Konis
Nick Steel - 1400/800. Or some ungodly number. Last I talked to him, he was at 1200/600, and was going up.

FWIW, the 2005 west coast champ drove my car in the Thunderhill Endoro, and was a second faster than his own car in the third hour of the race!. Burns him up that his best time at T-hill isn't even in his own car.

Tony G drove Nick's car this past weekend at BW. Basically said "you can feel every pebble on the track" followed by "it's almost undriveable".

My personal thoughts on front rates are:
Street/HPDE: < 650#
Race: 650 - 1000#
Nick: >1000#

Randy, next year when we're up at T-Hill, you're welcome to sign up for HPDE and take my car out for a session. Or ask Al about my car, he's driven mine and (obviously) his for comparison.

 

Brad, you rock!