Ude-lose - thanks for the info in this thread. ProudPony - sorry but I disagree with this:

Why can't I compare any car to any other car? The only factor introduced is one of uncertainty if one is modded. People often compare a modded Z28 or Monaro to an 03 Cobra for example because of COST. Sure you can enhance a new Cobra... but you've already spent a big wad getting one at that point as well. For folks like me who already have an LS1, it makes sense to compare MY costs for that level of performance. The same will be true next year for 2004 Monaro and GTO owners.

...And the day I temper my enthusiasm for my cars is the day they pry my cold, dead fingers off the steering wheel

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| Brilliant Red Metallic 1990 IROC-Z Camaro, K&N, Camaro SS takeoff muffler

[This message has been edited by BigDarknFast (edited July 23, 2002).]

 

You are not "under my wing" - nor will you be. You are correct - it is a free world, so post what you like where you like. All I'm saying is that as your posts are continually discredited, so will you be, then nobody will CARE what you write, and just skip your posts altogether. Geez, screw me for even caring?!?!

Discredited?... regarding your rant about the "'03 Cobra" getting whipped... yes. Here is a link to the Supporters Guide for the Nations Cup event containing facts /descriptions about the cars too. It is an '02 Cobra RA and will be driven by Anthony Robson (leaving a Toyota MR2 to get in this car BTW). Then, here's a link explaining to you how an inported 2002 Cobra R becomes a Cobra RA.

So please, post whatever you like, good or bad, about GM or Ford, I don't mind. But if you post things about Camaros, Firebirds, GTOs, or especially Mustangs - BEWARE. If it is alleged to be fact, and it isn't true, I'm gonna bust you on it every time.
Don't worry though, I'm not gonna reverse the tables on you and try bashing on your new stock toys with our US-modstuff. It's just not my style.

So let's play... like "big boys"!

 

I lost count after a million or so posts about comparing mod-cars to stock ones. To compare mod v. stock is futile IMO. Some don't think it's fair, I guess some do. If you think it's a fair practice - more power to you. Please, compare any car to any other car as often as you wish.

I personally have no problem distinguishing between
1)Belittling a factory car by comparing it to modded-by-a-race-shop competitors that may not even be street legal, much less have a warranty.
and
2)Comparing a fast factory Z06 to a fast factory '03 Cobra. (they are not in like class or market, but at least they are both in factory trim).

BTW, I NEVER SAID TO "TEMPER" ANY ENTHUSIASMS. In fact, did I not say I APPLAUDED IT?!?! DON'T temper your enthusiasm for musclecars... we need just the opposite - MORE enthusiasm for them, ALL OF THEM. I DO however, think that we all need to apply that energy (read enthusiasm) wisely, so as to remain credible and worth reading for the decisionmakers at GM and elsewhere. They won't continue to come here if the forum gets loaded down with BS and trash-n-bash posts.

Thanks for your thoughts! I honestly respect your POV, even if I don't agree 100%.

 

ProudPony - comparing mod'd vs. stock may be futile, and you have every right to your opinion. But I live in the real world, where I have real budgetary constraints. The 03 Cobra has a smallish back seat, a very old platform, no side airbags, mucho mass, poor fuel economy and no T-tops. Why would I get one when I can have better performance for less by just enhancing my Firebird? Far as I can tell, it's a perfectly valid tradeoff to make. Even if I didn't now own an LS1 Fbody... I could get a used one and do the same.

All this talk about 'discrediting'... you seem like someone well versed in interpersonal relations (I say that without sarcasm BTW)... perhaps it would be less antagonistic if you referred to 'challenging' assertions instead. So far, I am not convinced much "discrediting" has happened. It appears obvious to me, and probably would to the vast majority of readers, that the Nations Cup entrants ARE modded-by-a-shop race cars - as opposed to factory stock. However - I'm not posting to argue whether the thread starter was wrong, or to defend him (he can clearly take care of himself). Instead - this thread caught my eye b/c it's queer if a true 2003 Cobra is not the car of choice for that race. Or is it? To me it says, Holden BEAT Ford already... with a better design already out on the market!

OMG my enthusiasm is showing again I will try to show more caution

 

Ha ah ha ha.. proud,, ok then i'll be cautious what I say... LOL... it doesn't bother me and neither do you...(difference is i don't go over all your posts with a fine comb to find errors or missinformation like you do...)and youve done it to other people not only me... Hey I never said I was perfect, but in General my information is pretty informative and Entertaining...

"then nobody will CARE what you write, and just skip your posts altogether." - oh so now your speaking on behalf of everyone here... LMFAO dude... your like an overzealous Ford fan that can't hack it if other people support other brands...

 

I dunno Ude-lose. I kinda agree with PP. Being enthusiastic is one thing, but posting things that are akin to "Check out how big my d*** is!!" can mean that people will assume you are just here to stir up trouble, rather than bring new information and discussion.

I think most people are interested in what you have to say - perhaps however, you need to look at the way you deliver it ...

[This message has been edited by Decromin (edited July 24, 2002).]

 

But seriously Deccy , what have i done to give the impression that "my D*** is bigger yours" argument ... Ive posted once about the Cobra 03 saying that Holden, HSV or CSV will come up with a 7.0l . Now look back and see how many posts about the 03 Mustang being the best thing since sliced bread... I think my 1 post compared to 1000's of pro 03 mustang posts isn't overdoing it.. do you ??

 

Gee, this is about as bad as the rhetoric comes: Harsh, tearing cynicism... NOT! Friends, it's a fact the 03 Mustang is riding on an ancient Fairmont platform. Granted, SVT has done wonders in neutralizing the nose-heavy understeer tendencies in the 03 Cobra. But it remains a fact that the Monaro's platform is much newer design, one intended as an IRS from the start. Why is that such an unpleasant revelation to diehard Ford fans? I am truly excited about the roadholding potential of the new GTO, along with its other capabilities. If that is troublesome to certain readers, my apologies... perhaps they can go enjoy Stangnet instead...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Decromin:

I think most people are interested in what you have to say - perhaps however, you need to look at the way you deliver it ...

I take this to mean... talk about the Holden,,, but don't critisize Ford while your doing so...

anyway ok thats cool, I don't like posts to turn into insults either... so peace...




[This message has been edited by Ude-lose (edited July 25, 2002).]

 

Decromin, thanks... for just acknowledging my point without sarcasm or a flame. Seems like any of you guys take a risk of being incinerated with flames to agree with anything that I post. I appreciate your taking the risk on my behalf.

In this thread, I made the decision to clear-up a "mis-statement" of fact, using some positive reinforcement and humor. The immediate response was "At least you don't see me going to... and saying this and that..." That's so wrong to do. I tried to smooth it out, be professional about it all, and get this guy with strong feelings and resource to be helpful in getting us an F5 back instead of making this a bash-board. I even offered an appology for offending. The next response... "I will post what I like where I like.", under sarcasm. So I did what to flame this up?

Ude, know what the funny thing is, the guys that demonstrate the most savvy and true car enthusiasm (without pure brand bias) in their posts seem to be leaving this thread alone anyhow. They can see through the BS. I'm dropping it now too. There's better things to post on.

So between you and I, this is all a done deal, agreed? Peace.

 

BDnF, as always, it's a pleasure to hear from you!

In this post, I am going to defend my point about discrediting the '03 Cobra.
TO YOU BDnF, not Ude, but I'm gonna quote Ude a bit in the process - nothing personal to intended towards you UDE.

There was a comment made, "Now we will see how new the Cobra's chassis really is from the old." to which you refer, saying "this is about as bad as the rhetoric comes".
THIS IS ABOUT AS BAD AS THE RHETORIC COMES... Oh really?

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THIS THREAD AGAIN?
*Warning* Cobra 03 owners enter at own risk...
Doesn't imply that an '03 Cobra guy should feel "threatened" by an impending doom now, does it? Very subtle too. And where does the '03 come into play in here?

This from another recent 5th gen thread by the same author...
"Lastly a lot of Ford fans are showing up in various GM forums knocking and critisizing the GTO... trying to keep the GM boys against it,the GTO will hit Mustang sales like the f-body never could and its gonna sting like a bitch."
Again, very subtle and quite the interesting
and persuasive technique to make your point. BTW, I thought F-bods did quite well - especially in 2nd and 3rd gen sales. Where's the substantiation for that part of the comment?

I'll stop... this post is already getting undeservedly too long.

One last thing though.
Good point. Now please explain to me how you are gonna discredit (sorry, make "challenging assertions to", since you prefer those words) the '03 Cobra by watching the performance of a non-stock '02 model in a race with non-stock cars from another country?!?! The STOCK rear IRS is largely different between the '02 and '03 Cobras anyways.

So BDnF, thanks for admitting that it's an '02 Cobra in the race like I pointed out...
oh wait... you didn't.
Instead, you made the comment "this thread caught my eye b/c it's queer if a true 2003 Cobra is not the car of choice for that race. Or is it? To me it says, Holden BEAT Ford already... with a better design already out on the market!"
Reality-check for me - This is 2002 is it not? Not 2003 yet? The first line test of '03 Cobras came off what... a month ago? So you think there should already be a slew of '03s in Oz, already in the race shops, modded-up, tested, and certified for the upcoming events.

I really hate it that you have such a hatred for me posting here. In life, do you often try to run-off those around you who want to help you get something you probably want even more than they do? or those who may have insight, ideas, or experience that you don't?

To me, the sad thing is that if we had met in a food line at Carlisle, PA or some other big car meet, we'd probably have struck off a great conversation about why we were there that day, our "old" cars, and experiences we've had with them. But here, oh well. Again, how sad.

If we're gonna keep up our little sparring match, we're gonna have to do it somewhere else - not on this thread. I don't see anything in this one that warrants another post from me. Maybe one over on Stangnet as you said! Or take it into the lounge. One thing for sure, this forum doesn't deserve a pissing contest between a GM and a Ford guy - and I'm not gonna partake of it any more. This forum is intended to help get a great 5th gen back. Looking forward to talking with you again soon, hopefully about a meritous topic!


[This message has been edited by ProudPony (edited July 26, 2002).]

 

I agree Proud sometimes I get carried away...
but still -

It was agood thread going about the possibility of a 7.0 liter Monaro, ok maybe i shouldn't have bagged the cobra, besides im not talking about you personally im talking about the ford mustang cobra.

but your reply was - "I saw another thread that said "GM has a new ad agency"...
Yeah, I know! It's called "Ude-Lose"!! LOL"

You were'nt talking about the Holden , instead you decided to make a crack about me personally... and thats not cool.

thats all other than that... ive got no probs with you....

see we never even finished talking about the 7.0 because of this mess..

in the future i will start another and I will be more carefull with my wording...ok??

thanks mate !!!

 

ProudPony - My apologies, if my remarks bothered you. Guess the "go visit Stangnet" stuff was over the line. Of course I welcome your posting here (it's really not up to me, but I'm glad to see your opinions). If GM is reading this stuff, they need to know what Ford owners think too. I also believe you about your not being just a Ford fan, but also a muscle car fan in general. I like more than GM too although obviously I'm quite partial to GM's (gee who would have guessed ). As such I have a reaction when people seem to be coming down on GM. I hope you keep posting here.

On the statement I made:

Maybe there was a better way to word it... it was intended to say that yes, that is a 2002 Cobra in the field of Nations Cup; no, it would not be there IF the 2003 were already out when the field was chosen - the 2003 would instead be preferred; and yes, Holden has a leg up in the race because it was first to market with the Monaro and its modern performance chassis - a chassis which is and will be legendary.

There are things I don't like about all cars. If GM is reading this, I aim to inform. I've already said I don't like the age of the current Mustang platform, and listed what else I don't like. It's part of why I plan to mod my Formula more, and why I feel justified in comparing modded vs. stock vehicles. That said, Ford and SVT have done wonders with the new Cobra's handling, made it virtually neutral in a car actually now more nose-heavy than before, and I have no doubt the DEW-lite or C170 Mustang in 04 will be a beaut... I hope it looks like the pix I have seen, such as Motor Trend's rendition looking like a 69 fastback! Just what we need to get GM moving on the next Camaro!

 

You are right. I sincerely apologize for the crack. It was intended with humor and light-heartedness, but if it came off as offensive, then I was wrong to do it. After all, I am the one pushing for this forum to be kept "clean and professional" so often.

I hope you did read in my first reply that I am happy to see someone still persuing big-block applications in this era. If one (427) can beat CAFE regulations here stateside, be cost-moderate, and get low-emission too, I'd be all over it personally. I encourage the development of the 7.0, and hope it proves itself - as that can only help GM and others who may stay with the musclecars to review their use of cubic inches in the future. And that would be good IMHO!

Ude - it's all good w/me pal. Let's talk Musclecars...

 

Friends...

I for one say kudos to Ford for truely pulling out their Cahoonas and puting them on the line with the 03 Cobra... they have truely made their Ford fans proud... and with just cause.

All that im saying is I hope for GM to follow and make somthing special in the next couple of years. Or I will forever loose faith. Whether its the GTO, a next Gen Camaro or Bird, or to make up to us, all 3.

So here we are all waiting GM .... waiting for your reply!