Hey numbscull, I'm still posting here. I miss reading the posts of some of those who don't anymore.

Of course I always look forward to your whining, bile spewing posts though.....

 

I probably wouldn't diminish the importance of looming CAFE requirements. They'll be met, but it won't be business as usual. I don't foresee any LSA/LS9 type motors. But....you never know what Ford may do with it's TT 5.0L... and GM's response to it.

So far what I can see on the horizon are normally aspirated or turbo 4's, normally aspirated V6, (turbo V6???) and (maybe) normally aspirated V8's.

Horsepower? I don't know, whether it would be a turbo V6 or GenV smallblock, 425-450?

 

This seems to be what everyone should be talking about. 5th gen is built around the idea of having a 550HP engine and thus you get everything that comes along with that.

I think most should be cool with say a 450HP car at 3600lbs. It would be the fasted Camaro ever.

The reason I don't think they should worry about CAFE is because I think by 2013-14 gasoline will be over $5 a gallon and the public will be demanding cars that already meet or exceed the 2016 requirements. Now if gas was going back to $1.99 it would be a different story, CAFE would be a huge issue. That is not the case though as the fundamentals for oil don't look too good. In 2014 $3-$4 will be the good old days.

 

Fixed. Source for your info?

 

Knowledgeable people with interesting things to say are fine, as long as they put some thought into it.

 

That's fair, as long as thread destroying pettiness is held in check.

Case in point: Look at this clown......

 

I'd be cool with that.

In fact a 3600 pound (or less?) car with that kind of power would be FAR more fun than 556 hp and 4100 pounds.

 

Indeed. Amongst issues was also the goal of Zeta and the Zeta we got. These things happen. We know GM is really starting to go after weight now. How much? I cannot say, but it is happening. Does it mean a 3600hp 450hp Camaro is possible? Sure. At the price point of today? Maybe. Will we get it? Good question.

The total number of variables here is mindblowing. Weight, Power, performance, emissions, miles per gallon, cost, profit, volume, reliability, crash safety, content, materials...

I know guys that do gear ratios. Seeing a 7 or 8 dimensional plot is not uncommon for helping them make their decisions. That is merely for gear ratios on a car that is already designed. Starting from clean slate? A hundred times worse.

We cannot answer the big questions. Period.

Which is why, at this point, a "450hp Camaro" will have a NA V8 before a TTV6, and I'd bet good money the decision matrices lean HARD in that direction.

Next, do we top out alpha at 450hp or 550hp? Then run the process again. Now that's a tough one. Will it impact the weight of the base V6 model? Will it effect the cost of the base V6 model? Will it effect the mpg of the base V6 model? Can we subsidize the development costs of the 550hp variant on only that model, or would that put the price point too high?

I could sit here and ask these questions all day. The questions GM's design engineers are already dealing with. I could even try and use some DFSS tools with some of the people around here to see which way they could go and why they'd go there.

But even then, asking questions about the Camaro may not be valid. Camaro is not getting its own platform. If it goes on alpha, then all of alpha and every vehicle on that platform must be in agreement. If designing in a 550hp engine again is good for Camaro, what would it do to a 3 series fighter ATS? Which vehicle is more important? A lighter ATS or a 550hp Camaro? How many 550hp Camaros will be sold globally versus a superior Cadillac ATS? Will an overweight ATS be reviewed poorly by customers than GM not offering a 550hp Camaro by a minority of consumers?

This whole line of questions should blow your mind. Just answering the question "what will the top engine be?" is a process that easily takes 6 months of hard work to answer. I do not know if everyone here understands that.

 

Or posts like these:

I still wanna know where you are getting your information from. You putting forth some speculation like you have inside knowledge but haven't offered any credible sources other than your overly biased opinions, statements, and polls. Resorting to name calling isn't exactly proving yourself knowledgeable (or interesting for that matter.)
You like lightweight cars. This seriously weighs (no pun intended) on your opinion of FI V8 engines. We ALL have been hearing this for well over a year. Now you have started this poll and when anyone questions it you assert that you have some knowledge that many of us do not have. Twice I have asked your source(s) for this and instead I get posts like the one above.
So put up or shut up. Where have you heard that FI V8's (or possibly V8's altogether) are up in the air? That's all I want to know. Well, that and to stop hearing about how heavy the Camaro is. We get it.

 

All great points! And I agree with you on where the decision matrices might be going to.

If GM doesn't blow Alpha, it's bullseye remains the 3 series. That implies a certain size and mass. Package protecting that for 550-600 hp probably changes the whole dynamic. Beyond that, we know that GM wants this architecture to be able to comfortably buzz around with a 4 cylinder and get great FE while doing it.

 

Oh really?

I don't think for one split second that you care one way or another how/where/what/who I get my info from...

 

Always the run around whenever really pushed. I am done with you. Go ahead and continue to be a cancer to this website. I've grown bored trying to get you to prove anything you ever say. It amazes me that anyone let alone the 4 or 5 people on this board who believes what you say has any credibility. Nowhere have you ever backed up any information you have posted.

 

Then how about shutting the f*ck up?

People don't give away their sources, NOBODY DOES! And for good reason if they did the employer might fire them and guess what the source isn't a source anymore.

 

You guys are arguing semantics at this point.

First while there may be indications that V8 for the alpha platform is not currently in the cards, there has been no confirmation that the 6th gen Camaro will even be on alpha.

Ask yourself this, if the 5th gen Camaro ends up being a roaring success (note: we cannot assume it will based solely on its early V8 sales success), why on earth would GM choose to dramatically change it by downsizing it?

We know GM is planning an alpha Cadillac. We understand the market enough to know that to make the alpha Cadillac economical to produce, GM also needs a volume car off the platform, most likely a Chevrolet. Yet who says the alpha Chevrolet has to be called Camaro?

While I'll agree that in order to better meet CAFE in 2012, GM will need to sell more "economy" Camaros if it is going to be a volume seller. While a turbo V6 will help get there, there are other alternatives. Personally I'd like to see a turbo diesel (V8 or V6), however they can also get closer to the market by improving transmission performance as well. A small (sub 6L) turbo V8 backed by an eight speed electronically controlled automatic might get similar mileage as today's V6, yet still put out 450+hp.

I honestly don't think GM can afford to rush the 6th gen Camaro. If they are forced to give up on Zeta after only 5 years, then the 5th gen Camaro might be deemed a failure and they may be forced to give up on Camaro altogether. There's no way in this economy and under the new board GM is going to say "that didn't work, so let's try something different." At least there would be questions on why to even continue the project.

No for Camaro to survive past the 5th gen's expected life, the 5th gen will need to be a success. If it is a success, GM would be foolish to completely change the formula. Yes they will improve upon it, however they also are very likely to tweak it along the way and stretch out its lifespan, possibly as far out as 2020.

All this is speculation of course. However, if and when a 6th gen Camaro is created, it may not be that different from the 5th gen, or it may be something totally new. But as long as it out performs the competing products from Ford and Chrysler/Dodge et al, does it really matter what the powertrain in the top Camaro is?

 

They really need it to get better CAFE numbers. The current cars numbers are great, don't get me wrong. But going forward, they'll need to get substantially better.