The Camaro SHOULD most assuredly have the option of a 400 hp or higher motor. Do you make it the base engine, no. But why should those people who can afford the engine, and the insurance, not have the option for a factory built high horsepwer pony car? Now whether or not Chevrolet WILL put the ls2 or some other hi-po V8 (read 400+ HP) in the Camaro remains to be seen. I for one sure as hell hope they do. If they choose not to put that kind of power in the Camaro, then I hope the GTO will still be an option (or a Chevelle coupe).

 

Why should they give the Camaro as much or MORE HP than a base Vette or a $52k Cadillac CTS-V? I personally think it was a slap in the face of GM to put the same motor with the same HP in a $32k GTO as they are in the new CTS-V and you do not want to **** off your customers who spend $50k on a car. I wouldn't be upset at all if the new CTS-V had a 425-450hp version of the LS2, I would just chaulk that up to the HP wars and that I am 2 model years behind with my 04, but the only reason the GTO has that motor is because its the only motor GM had left to put in it, and they needed to save face and actually sell some GTO's.

 

To compete in it's segment.

 

They don't necisarily pay 50k just for the engine. You pay for the "complete" package and the "name".

Even if their was a Camaro option giving it more hp then the base Vette, believe you me I would still take the Vette hands down. It's really different demographics.

 

How much HP is the base Vette going to have in 2008? Answer that question, and then it will be easier to get a decent idea of how much a 2008 Z28 (or SS, or whatever) might have (ie....rated somewhat less, if history is any guide).

 

Why? Challenger SRT-8 (rumored) and Mustang Cobra (confirmed), possibly Mach 1 (conjecture) version by then.

As far as someone cross shopping a Camaro and a "Vette, it's a stretch, but ok maybe. Lets see, somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-600 lbs less in weight if we use C6 versus 2002 Camaro, 2 seat world class sports car, versus 2+2 GT style car. Advantage 'Vette, even with the same engine.

Regarding someone shopping a CTS-V and a Camaro style car, sorry don't think it is going to happen. Even if it does, that $47-52K gets you Cadillac style amenities and apointments. Even a vastly improved Camaro interior is going to pale in comparison, and I just really don't see the same demographics or market segment going for that 35k SS. Likewise, I don't see that 30-35k SS demographic busting down the doors of the local Caddy dealership.

Lastly, the 2002 SS Camaro could be had in a 345 hp version. Scott has already said that the actual hp was equivalent to the 'Vette. They wanna rate it (the ls2 in a 5th gen) at 390, to appease people, and keep the CTS-V, GTO and 'Vette with a "statistical advantage", fine by me; they rated the L-78 396 at 375 in 1969 and the NHRA promptly put it at 425; That is my idea of retro heritage !

 

More fodder for the dinner table. The engine better not be under the dashboard like the 4th gen. Please make it easy to work on.

As for styling, I want something completely revolutionary. If its a copycat of a 1969 Camaro, just as the Mustang is a copy of the 1967, then I won't buy it. It can have a few heritage cues like the Vette(4 round tail lights, raised hood), but please say NO to retro.

I want something that looks like nothing else on the road, like my 1999 Z28. Do I want something similar to the 4th gen? No. But it needs to be sleek, sexy, and drop dead goregous.

 

What I don't understand is this. Our mutual martian friend said in Bowling Green the most recognizable Camaro to the general public was an '85 IROC. If that's the case, then WHY model it with cues from a '69?? The '69 is 36 years old, older than me...older than dirt. I DON'T CARE. My dad and I were planting a tree in my front yard earlier, and I was talking to him about this very thread. I mentioned the '69 idea, and he got excited. I want to hurl. Now, I love my dad and all, and at 50 he's having more fun than ever. But I ask you...who is Chevy going to sell more Camaros to going forward, me or him?

As a couple of you know, until earlier this evening I planned to buy a new GXP. Want to know the clincher on what stopped me? I was in the Grand Am, and at a light a teal green '91-'92 RS pulled up next to me. The car is at least 13 years old. Even the paint was pealing off the passenger door a little. But, that car has STYLE. That car wowed the public, and sold strong until the end of the run. It still looks good today. I said to myself "I don't need just another 4 door sedan (even if it has a V8 and cross-drilled rotors ), I need another Camaro!" So I went to the dealership, grabbed my GP off the lot and ripped all the signs off of it. Its a great daily driver, and will serve me many more years of reliable daily driving, I am sure. If a 5th looks great, the GP will be a winter/daily driver. If not, I'll still keep it I'm either buying my dad's Formula and talking him into a C6 or getting the IROC I've whined about since I was, oh, 5 or so I've always wanted to drive a car to 200k...looks like the GP may be my chance.

What's the moral of this? A 3rd gen took cues from a 2nd. A 4th gen took cues from a 3rd. If a 5th gen takes cues from any generation, fine. But if its a rounded off '69, I'm tracking down that RS and buying it. Honestly Charlie, if I had been old enough, the last Camaro I would have bought was an IROC as well. Don't get me wrong, I love my '97. But, it lacks the presence a 3rd gen has. I want that back...

And I don't want it looking like a 36 year old car no one has bought from a showroom since Woodstock, thanks very much...

 

Most people on this board like the 4th gen. Thats why you guys want a direct evolution of it to replace your current car. If it looks like a direct descendant of the 02 model I dont think it will do well.
I hope it looks like a 69, with a more user friendly upright body and hopefully a trunk. It'll bring in new buyers who would have never considered a Camaro before.

 

Bro. I been around here as long as you. I know who RP is. I also know he didn't have a clue about the GTO till the car was offloading at the dock. In fact, he "explained" many times how stupid it was to expect GM to import the Holden GTO.

As to explaining why GM is being sooooooo quiet about the Camaro. Please go ahead. They announced the Solstice 3 years ago. Chrysler announced the 2009 Challenger. Car companies are not quiet about product in the pipeline WHEN there's no liability to advertising it, like sabotaging current model year sales. But there's no 2005 Camaro sales to worry about. Or 2006. Or 2007...

Hell Ford had to worry about '03 and '04 sales of the stang. AND WE STILL pretty much knew all about the 2005.

WHY ON FREAKIN EARTH WOULD GM KEEP THE CAMARO SECRET FOR X MORE YEARS AND ALLOW THOUSANDS OF CAMARO GUYS TO BUY INTO A FORD AND THUS BE OUT OF THE MARKET WHEN THIS MYTHICAL, IN-THE-PIPELINE CAMARO MAGICALLY APPEARS 2-3 YEARS FROM NOW?

OTOH, wouldn't it ACTUALLY MAKE MORE SENSE to do WTF DC just did in trying to hold the 512 remaining Mopar loyalists by announcing a Challenger to be available in 2008.

I've questioned RP's info before. And I always get the same fanboy flack. Well I just call it like I see it.

If there really WAS a Camaro in the pipe, we'd be hearing about it. Even GM ain't THAT STUPID. They're still studying the Mustang phenomenon. No Camaro anytime before 2010.

 

Move along Nube. Nothin you'd understand goin on here.

 

I believe he asked whether the skeptics on here thought GM was keeping the secret Camaro secret just to **** people off.

I simply said they're quiet because they don't have anything to talk about.

And then asked a much more useful question about the future of the current GM pony car.

 

The "old" GM was behind the rejection of the Monaro (or any other Holden) making it to U.S shores. If memory serves RP was simply expanding on their reasoning for it, at the time. It wasn't until Bob Lutz came aboard when Holden had a chance here.

Solstice was not a car GM planned to produce when it was shown on the auto show circuit in 2002. Overwhelming customer response put the wheels in motion there. And I'm sorry, has Chrysler "officially announced" a 2009 Challenger? Reading comprehension sir:

Chicago Tribute:Insiders insist the concept is meant strictly to test consumer reaction. A business case hasn't been developed, and it hasn't been given a production go-ahead.

I see a couple of "hasnt's" in there.

What did you know about the 2005 Mustang before the concept was shown? Seriously, as far as styling all you had was....gasp....rumor. We knew a new Mustang was coming before the concept was shown only because it was never announced that Mustang was finished. Again, it's all an assumption game.

This question has been answered so many times is it really necessary to even go there?

Again, DCX has not "announced" a damn thing regarding a possible Challenger.

You are perhaps the biggest Ford fanboy in the 5th Gen forum, and it shows. You're on a Chevy site, are we not supposed to like and trust someone with such a passionate and intimate knowledge of all things Camaro like RP? Please.

You'll be hearing about it by the end of the year, I'm pretty sure.

Keep repeating that mantra here. Keep taking your own fanboy comfort in whatever thoughts you'd like. By 2010 there will be at least one direct Mustang competitor on the market, uhh, much to your chagrin.

 

Bang away, friend.

**edit**
When we start hearing anything solid about the Camaro, we'll tack 3 years on from there.

Question. You gonna let me use the bat when the Camaro shows up after the decade ends?

 

Because we all know it's impossible to be working on a car long before anything is actually announced about its production! Let's put it to you in Ford terms, you know, the guys from Dearborn you love...the new Mustang was "announced" in January 2003 with the Mustang concept....and the new 2005's were rolling off the assembly line, what, 18 months later?

OMG are you a freaking tool.