WHOA!! careful, now...as I recall, you've used quite a bit of sarcasm .......

Gotta tell you.......after all these posts, I suggest we change the name of this thread to "Banned in CamaroZ28.com"

 

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! there should be prizes for comment of the month!

i second that motion!

 

This thread was started to discuss the twenty points. Does anyone have anything to say about them, good or bad?

 

Please tell me you're not serious. You just carried this thread and about three others through a meandering, wandering mess. Now you want to start another circle?

I strongly support your right to stay on this forum since you haven't been offensive or inappropriate. However, this is getting very annoying. As everyone here knows, you have not listened to anything anyone has said about your plan. The good stuff you just cut and paste into your e-mails, and the bad stuff you try and dodge.

Here's an example from some of your first posts on GMinsidenews, which was I beleive the first place you came to after being published in Autoweek:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...1&page=3&pp=20
Here's an interesting exchange, which I hope Globalist doesn't mind me showing here:

What I'm trying to show is that people really tried to help you and give advice in the beginning. Globalist obviously put some thought into giving you some help, and your first response made clear that you did not really care about what he had to say, beyond using his words for a cute little speech. You turned him off, and have turned myself and others off in the very same fashion.

Regardless of everything I have said to you, I still think you're most likely a decent enough guy and that you could help GM in some function. First though, you very badly need to get over yourself.

 

very good post, Dav305Z.......

 

I never posted in any thread of Buickman's but I wanted to see what he had to say. I didn't email him as I was a little apprehensive and I'm glad that I didn't.

I've reserved my comments on Buickman's motives because I have no idea what they are BUT he did come off as a little more than a lobbyist, pushing his agenda. His crosshairs on Wagoner without letting the merit of his plan speak for itself kind of gave me the hint that there is more than meets the eye.

I've got no problem with Buickman but I do think that his constant dodging tactics are old.

(PS. FYI: I don't think a Banning is in order!)

 

Excuse me, but what dodging are you referring to? Please be specific. I've done my best to answer every question. If I failed to make myself clear, let me know where, I'll do so promptly.

 

You're really just digging the hole deeper for yourself at this point. For starters, you were doing it in this very post.

While there are many specific examples that could be provided, my personal favorite was in this thread: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=387263. See your post, #15, and then see my analysis of how you dodged my question in post #21.

 

Well, first of all I didn't dodge anything. I hadn't been back to that thread since I made post #15, and never saw your #21. In response, I can see your point. Yes, I have made a career selling to GM employees. It hasn't always been at GMS. Up until recently, employees negotiated their best deal, and then received an extra 5%. Virtually every dealer here screamed bloody murder as our profits droppped like a rock. Many talented salespeople left the business, and a number of dealers folded, or sold out. Just because we are forced to sell at GMS here doesn't make it right, or something I readily agree with. It was forced on us. Employees gave up a raise in their contract as they agreed to GMS instead. How do you think they feel now that everyone in the US gets the same? Guarantee you they feel foolish not sticking with their desired 4% pay increase.
Price fixing by manufacturers is flat wrong, it goes completely against the forces of a free market. Basic economics tells us it's supply and demand that determines pricing, and any attempts to control it by the government, or corporations, is counterproductive in the long term, and cannot be maintained.
The image GM has created for itself is one of a desparate company hawking undesirable goods, only purchased at distressed pricing. GM has opened a can of worms with GMS, and will not be able to return to "normal pricing" without a black hole in demand. Furthermore, the impact of GMS will fade, as did 0% for 60. Last September we gave 0% for 72. What's next? Like junkies, the public will continue to expect more and more. There is no bottom except bankruptcy.
Believe me, if GM hadn't lost the market share they had, and practically destroyed the Buick Motor Company I love, you never would have heard of me, or GeneralWatch. I have done these things because I truly care, and feel I have something worthwhile to offer. I am willing to give up my job, income, and security to make a difference. And for what? A few 100K? For grief from a few of you when I came seeking advice and improvement? I've been called self-serving, arrogant, and a liar. Thanks for the help.

 

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-Crap-Die.jpg

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-Crap-Wont_Die.jpg

 

Haha hello old friend, people still arguing in this thread? First, I have talked to 5 dealers recently, 3 of them at a dealership and they have all personally told me said that they love GMS. Second, GM is not going to looser ground, they will gain ground and if you care I will put money on that any way you would like.

GM's U.S. hourly payrolls shrank from $9.1 billion in 2002 to $8.7 billion last year. The costs of retirees and surviving spouses start declining in 2008 and sadly GM with be cutting some benefits to there employees. GM is starting to look much better on the revenue side. Industry sales picked up in April while GM is combining Buick in the same dealerships as Pontiac and GMC, which should help spark some interest. Finally, Chevy HHR and slinky Pontiac Solstice are going to help get customers into showrooms. GM is making the right move and staying away from SUV's at least, all their hot products are going to be cars.

 

We have reached the point of diminishing returns. I'm tiring of the personal, uncalled for, attacks. Does anyone have anything worthwhile to contribute regarding the twenty steps released? If so, let's discuss. I assumed that was the purpose here. If not, there certainly are more productive uses for time besides babysitting some uninformed, naive, opinionated blabbermouths.

 

I've remained silent during the entire debate over Buickman's "20 steps." I didn't weigh in when Red Planet inspired the anti-Buickman thread.

Enough is enough.....

Buickman, I'm not going to endorse or even comment on your "20 steps." I think that it's time that you accept the fact "shareholder rebellions" are inevitably doomed to failure.

Buickman, you're not going to impact the course of events at GM. The sad fact is that GM has entered an inescapable trajectory that can only result in only one outcome.

 

RedZed,
In spite of what I've read, you speak with much wisdom. As a counterpoint, I offer the case of Archer, supermarket to the world. A shareholder activist, David Hoech, did manage to upset the applecart. Daune Andreas, the Chairman, resigned, and his son, the President, went to prison. Although unlikely, an individual stockholder CAN make a difference. A book was written about the events, "Rats In The Grain". My contention is that there are Rats In The Glovebox.
I agree there is, most likely, only one probable outcome, and that is bankruptcy. However, I will not abandon the cause, Return to Greatness, only instead put forth effort toward more rewarding efforts than debating with blind mice.
Buickman

 

At this point, I should state that I haven't seen any reason to question the honesty of GM's senior managment. There are no accusations to be made in terms of "corporate governance."