Yes but you can see my point that a T-top camaro would be smarter to buy because they are easier to sell.

Around here hard top V6 cars sell for alot less because they sit on lots at least twice as long and teh dealers have to discount them heavily to sell.

 

Ummm, read my post next time. I do drive slowly. What other way could I drive with Z rated tires in the snow? Even at a snails pace ABS is very useful when cars come sliding at me through red lights and dopey kids come sledding past me downhill.

I admit Z rated tires in the snow is not the smartest thing in the world. It was my daily driver at the time and I simply didn't have the money. Oh and at the time it was bone stock, so no I didn't mod my car and not buy snow tires.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chewbacca
[B]I can see a V8 owner possibly wanting a hardtop to save weight..however for V6 owners speed is not a huge issue hence buying the V6..so buying a hard top save .05 sec in a 1/4 mile smakes no sense. T-top cars are easier to sell and the only ones who will argue that are hard top owners...

You are right looks are subjective...ugly women find men to love them all the time...so maybe you do like your hardtop.

 

To be honest I hardly ever drive my Camaro in the snow anyway...i see no point in the risk to the car. If it's nasty I either stay home or let my g/f drive us around in the RAV4...as painful as that is....

 

Take a look at my car. I don't see any ground effects, nor were there any on the link you posted. Talk about a defensive little b!tch you are. I said I don't like the 4th gen ground effects and RS-spoiler (which are in truth taped-on) and you are trying insult me and my car. It's ok. My car's faster than yours (plus it weighs less) and I didn't have to get my friends' permission before I bought it.

Oh, and I get lots of compliments on both my cars, thanks. That's just an added bonus.

 

I can't see the bottom in those pics..did you take the side skirts and rear facia off? Those were on the car I posted a link to and are part of the appearence package the WRX gets. I know that is the same deeper facia the WRX gets over the Impreza on yours.

Either way I like my car if I got what my friends wanted I would have a Z28 or a WRX

A V6 Camaro with a good driver is a high 14 second car...that IMO is pretty respecatable.

 

So what does yours run? Just kidding, just kidding.....here, I'll post my sig so you can tease me.

 

Whomever ever said that Camaro is a true enthusiasts car nailed it. (Sorry too lazy to look back... lol) Just for comparisons sake, I recently bought my kid a '96 Mustang GT 5spd with an aftermarket Vortec Supercharger. It's to replace his '95 GT 5.0 Auto... because he wanted a stick... I've driven both of his Mustangs extensively. Yeah, they're cute cars... but I would never trade in my '95 Z28 for either of them. Their road-feel is far inferior to the Camaro's IMO. I know this may **** some people off, however I'm saying this with true openess and honesty without prejudice. The Mustang is a cute chicks' car. A real man would prefer Camaro.

I guess I'll never buy a Mustang for myself, unless they do something to make them a little more manly. I'll wait 5, heck even 10 years if the Gen-V Camaro is going to have the same "feel" as its predecessors. Until then, I'll keep my '95 and maybe pick up a 1st gen "project car."

Got to have faith, right?

 

God has this place been busy the last couple of hours. You sure do know how to stir things up Branden!

Whithout getting involved in this pile drive, Do you really think the Camaro looks like a Sebring on steroids? ABS and Traction Control isn't a necessary item with 245 tires? Uneducated people buy Camaros without T-Tops (or that you actually make more back upon selling a T-top Camaro than you pay for it as an option)? A WRX has alot of ground effects?

The wider the tires the slicker they are in all low-traction conditions, it's just that simple. The only downside to traction control is you can't peel out. As long as there's a off switch for those rare occasions, there's no problem with them. I know enough in advance that I'm going to show off that I have no problem turning them off.... on the other hand, those non-defeatable automatic lights....

I prefered not to get t-tops because the 93 automatic Z I got to use for a while (selling it for someone who was transfered overseas) had a hardtop and 140,000 miles, and was still virtually airtight. No wind noise, no leaks, no nothing. It could have been a brand new car, it was so tight. When I got my car, I ended up with t-tops. It has wind noise, it leaks in car washes, there's that standard issue A-pillar gap the coupes don't have, and more noteworthy, I rarely take them off. Though Camaro should have T-tops as an option, I assure you, my uneducated self will probally not get them again.

 

Ummmm, I'm going to try to explain something here in the most basic of terms...

If you think you can out-brake a 4-channel ABS system ON ANY SURFACE you're a fool.


Here's one for all you brake-pumping experts...

Low friction surface under the passenger side wheels, high friction under the drivers side, and you have to make a maximum deceleration stop to avoid running over a kid in your path.

Without ABS, you are going to spin, AND STILL KILL THE KID (the car will tend to continue along it's previous velocity vector while it spins).

Sound like it could never happen?

It snowed for the last two days here in Michigan, the roads themselves are clear - but the shoulders are nicely packed into ice from the plow trucks. Drop the two passenger side wheels in and slam the brakes and see what happens.


I don't know where Scott got this idea, but:
ASR has NO throttle kickback through the pedal that I can see. The accelerator pulls on a cable, and you can't push on a throttle cable.

Maybe he was talking about ABS.

 

Absolutely correct... yet some people who are just flat out ignorant to the fact will still try to debate this fact.

There is throttle kickback in LS1 ASR cars... I have felt it many times... I am pretty sure LS1 cars are 'drive by wire' and there is no cable... it's all electronic, therefore the kickback is possible.

" The 5.7L Gen III LS1 introduced leading-edge technologies to the grand tradition of the Chevrolet small block V8, starting with all-aluminum construction, a thermoplastic intake manifold and drive-by-wire electronic throttle. Measured by mass, package size, performance or cost to the customer, the 5.7L LS1 matches the world’s best overhead cam V8s. With this new small block, those who claimed cam-in-block engines could not meet the demands of a new millennium--or increasingly stringent emissions standards--were proven patently wrong. The LS1 small block represented the pinnacle of overhead valve technology--until the advent of the 5.7L (LS6) in 2001. "

 

Darth,

I'm pretty sure that Corvette is throttle by wire, but Camaro is not. Camaro just pulls on a cable. Corvette doesn't have a cable.

I'll check mine out tonight, maybe I'm wrong. But I know my Camaro has two cables heading to the throttle body (one is throttle and the other is cruise).

 

Ya, that is the part I am not certain of either... I KNOW COrvette is drive-by-wire, and I THINK LS1 Camaros are, but I am not certain...

But... I can assure you I have felt ASR kickback through my accelerator pedal on many occasions... The ASR Active light comes on, and the pedal kicks back at you...

 

Yes, I know how to brake. In my experience I do a better job in snow than the ABS systems that I have owned. ABS has a tendency to be in the "release" stage when you hit the dry spot.

An uncontrolled slide is at least slowing you down, while a controlled "roll" is not slowing you down as much. If the ABS is actuating, I doubt it would help me turn sharp enough on snow if it was a panic stop situation. I like ABS, but if I lived in the upper peninsula of Michigan I would not have ABS. I would have to drive in the snow more often and I would feel safer without ABS.

Perhaps its all in my head, or maybe sliding scares me more now that I have aged a few years. I dunno

Maybe it was just the vehicles...

99 Eclipse GS-T Spyder 4-wheel disks non-abs
03 Vibe GT 4 wheel disk ABS
Same physical tires, but they were rotated...


ok, ok no more off topic, sorry


Jason

 

ASR i am all for ..it does the right thing by taking away throttle. The problem is...in most emergency situations people brake. rain or ice slaming on the brakes creates a dangerous situation. In reality you want to try and find a way around the obstacle and use the brakes the minimum amount you need..especially in ice. If you can't get around the target by steering then you have no choice but to slam on your brakes and pray. ABS or no ABS steering is the key to avoiding an accident.

Part of my disdain for ABS comes from a job I had when I was 18 delivering papers...my car at the time had ABS and when I would go to stop for a paper tube on a curb I would sometimes hit a little gravel by the curb...the second I hit the gravel the ABS would engage sending me 15 feet past where I wanted to stop...I even hit a few trash cans that way.

Either way...I am not saying I don't like