I'm sure you all know this, but the most effective braking is "threshold braking". In other words right at, but not past, the point of wheel lock up. This is what ABS can do.

Generally, only the most experienced rally drivers can do that in snow or gravel. I believe that many of the semi-pro road racers (Speedvision/Motorola Cup) leave the ABS active in their cars.

 

I don't, (read my edit) but I feel my control of the peddle has been more "safe feeling" than that of ABS in a few instances I have experienced. I really can't explain it, except to say that maybe I was able to ride the line of peddle pressure where I was getting maximum stopping power without releasing pressure or locking up the breaks (for the most part). Remember that people usually only talk about the bad experiences, I have no idea how many times ABS has made my driving experience more pleasurable as my camaro's braking is superb.

That is why I said I like ABS 360 days out of the year. On a totally snow covered road the terrain is very consistent. If you throw any changes at me I won't be able to react and most likely will be crawling out of the car with my head bumping the shifter...

Jason

 

It does, I agree with this statement.

An of course I can brake each wheel independently, I am the break meister!

Seriously my previous post conceded that any surface irregularities would prove my braking to be inadequate. I'm just trying to say that it is possible for ABS to not be perfect. As I have experienced 3 times. ( I think 3, I drive pretty slow most of the time to stay safe)

Jason

 

"That is exactly what I am saying about my dislike of ABS on snow. It gives you a better chance of steering out of trouble. I just want to stop!"

Dear friend, please get what I am going to tell you now, for the safety of your family and yourself:

4 CHANNEL ABS WILL STOP SHORTER IN ANY CONDITION, NO MATTER WHAT, THAN YOU AS A HUMAN BEING CAN BY PUMPING YOUR BRAKES, PRAYING TO GOD, SACRIFICING CHICKENS, WHATEVER. THE MACHINE IS BETTER THAN YOU ARE IN THIS CASE, PERIOD.



"Having the tires locked up on snow isn't going to slow you down anymore than having the ABS pulse the brakes.... when the pulsing occurs, it is not nesasrily removing all braking force, just reducing it to the point where the wheels are able to rotate... and likly allowing you to stop in a shorter amount of space.

I don't understand why you'd want wheel lockup... it does nothing for you but cause potential loss of control... especially on a slick surface."

K - here's the physics (sort of.... read on). The coefficient of static friction is HIGHER than the coefficient of sliding friction. Always has been, always will be. When the wheel is being braked and still turning, static friction is what is being utilized, when it locks up sliding friction is in play.

Sounds backwards, but that's the way it works. Trust me, I DO THIS FOR A LIVING.

Here's the other secret though... tires don't really use friction to determine the majority how well they grip on most surfaces - there is a mechanical joint created as the tire slides against bumps in the road surface. This is why Corvettes have fat, relatively soft tires - the fatter the tire, the greater the number of these little bumps that can be grabbed.

If the tire is sliding, it is jumping over the little bumps it could normally grab if it wasn't sliding.


"But , I still think you would not have a longer stopping distance with ABS than without..."

And you would be right.



*EDIT: Was writing this when the other post about dynamic (sliding) friction vs. static friction came up.***

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PacerX
[B]Dear friend, please get what I am going to tell you now, for the safety of your family and yourself:

4 CHANNEL ABS WILL STOP SHORTER IN ANY CONDITION, NO MATTER WHAT, THAN YOU AS A HUMAN BEING CAN BY PUMPING YOUR BRAKES, PRAYING TO GOD, SACRIFICING CHICKENS, WHATEVER. THE MACHINE IS BETTER THAN YOU ARE IN THIS CASE, PERIOD. [B][QUOTE]

I agree 99%+ of the time and that is why I have anti-lock brakes on every vehicle I own.


Edit- I wonder if there is a way to seperate the brake "debate" into another thread as we strayed quite far from the topic began by the original poster.

Jason

 

Man this thread has evolved..

 

Yes... interesting how all your 'facts' have been cataorgically shot down...



Sorry... couldn't resist.

 

[B]I blame formula.

 

Nothing like someone who wants to be a ***** for the sake of argument...

Sometimes I wonder why the hell I even post here...

Anyway nothing like a bunch of 25 year olds deciding what m20-21 year olds want....

 

Relax, it was a joke.

 

I find myself constantly restraining from ripping into your arrogant, mis-informed, posts most of the time... I must have slipped here.

God forbid anyone question your self-imposed all-knowingness crown of glory...

 

Saying you don't want ABS is as dumb as saying you want drum over disc brakes.

 

Gee, this thread's taken on a life of it's own this morning!

Doesn't anyone work today??

 

LOL.

No, I am at work... It's good to be the 1 of 2 in the I.S. dept.

I think my Branden B.S. meter overflowed today.

 

I normally just lurk here but the uneducated crack got me riled up.