I don't look down on Camaro fans at all. And this is BY FAR my favorite Forum on the internet (nothing else even comes close anymore). I just find your incredible swooning humorous.

Sorry.

Edit: You should hear what some of the overly-fanboy types on the Mustang Forums tell me when I blast the GT500 for being such a pig of a car (500+ HP be damned). Even better, you should read the flak I take when I praise the LS-series engines. LOL - blasphemy to Mustang fanboys!

 

That's how I can tell you're a level-headed bloke, Bob!

It's rare to get Ford fans to give even faint praise to the LSX. You are definitely the exception to the rule.

Having said that, I love the thought of a 'lightweight' Ford 4V all alloy 5.0L V8 coming our way. It should be good.

 

Perhaps the problem is we don't all except gross exaggeration. I mean incredible swooning? I must have missed that. As a matter of fact I barely even defend the car on this site anymore.

 

super83z....I didn't mean to refer to you - I made a mistake, and apologies for quoting you in that reply. My comment is directed towards others.

My main concern with the 400 HP 5.0 is that you still have to twist the thing really high to get good power. Make no mistake - that can be a GREAT advantage in a car that can be geared to use it and with a transmission that can be aggressively shifted at such high rpm (power-shifting a syncronized tranny much above 7k is iffy at best). I'm dealing with that now in my 99. It's going to make near 400 RWHP, but peak will be right around 7k, and I'll need to shift at nearly 8k. I have a dog-ring tranny that will do it with my foot on the floor the whole time...no problem. But on the street? Not so nice!

An LS3 can make 500 RWHP keeping the peak around 6500 or so - making it much more useable for a street car, though perhaps still not real easy to get the absolute max acceleration out of it with a syncronized transmission. Fortunately for those that have them, GM makes an excellent automatic, and the LS3 makes enough mid-range power to take advantage of a good converter. Not so with the peaky 4Vs.

Bob

 

The reason I come here is because it's quite funny to read some of the stuff people say.
Just because someone doesn't like the 2010 Camaro doesn't mean that person is a "Camaro hater". There's a bunch of years/models of the Camaro that I personally would never want to buy. For example, I wouldn't want any Camaro made between 1975-1981 and/or any 1982-1986 non Z28/IROC. That's my personal taste and choice. Yet total sales numbers of the Camaro through those years are in the millions so someone must have liked them.
Does this mean I "hate" the Camaro as a whole? I love the Camaro and what it stands for and I'm elated that it's back. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to rush right out and buy a model year that I don't particularly care for. Us people who do not like this Camaro have legitimate reasons why they don't want one just like the people have reasons to love everything about it. Hopefully this new Camaro does appeal to a broad range of customers so it sticks around. Perhaps they'll make one later that I like enough to buy.

 

I agree with some of that. It is indeed ironic to come to a Camaro enthusiast site and find resident cynics on board and waiting, to deride and chastise everyone expressing true enthusiasm for the car. But to my memory, it's been that way for quite a while and I don't expect it to change. I think overall this board does a good job of allowing a lot of viewpoints to be expressed, nothing wrong with that. Nonetheless, I intend to make my viewpoints known as well.

 

Yes, but when a certain person calls the 5th gen "huge", a "pig", "enormous", etc., then I think that qualifies as a "Camaro hater", or at least a "5th gen hater."

 

The only one "deriding and chastizing" here is .........YOU

In fact, many of your posts are borderline abusive, mean spirited and viciously opinionated.

The only reason I let you slide is because you have a nice 3rd gen.

 

So if someone (like me) notices that the new Camaro is H_U_G_E, then they are a "Camaro hater"?


Oh my...

 

 

Wow....

With everything going on with chrysler and GM -- and launching a new car -- I don't have much time these days - and it bothers me that I don't come to this site much anymore.

I think the world of Jason and Chris - and I still monitor many sites - but the fact is that I can't get to every one of the major sites - so I'm pretty much monitoring these days.....

What REALLY bothers me about this site is the discourse that's gotten downright nasty.

The word Camaro means friend -- comrade -- and yet I see stuff deteriorating at an alarming rate....and much of it --yet far from all of it-- is due to the new car.

Am I disappointed that Art does not see his new Camaro as "the" car? Yes -- I think the world of he and his bride. BUT -- I also believe that his requirements are very much driven by his love for autocrossing.....and I also know that the bulk of our sales have been -- and will continue to be -- people who would never autocross the car. So Art - -I understand how you feel -- I wish you were keeping "princess" to enjoy, but I also know that you are pretty focused on what your requirements are. You're still my buddy -- I'll just have to run and hide when I see the BMW........

I also know that the Camaro is a very passionate brand - that brings out the best in people.......

It can also bring out the worst.........

.....and that's why we must be vigilant to acceptable behavior.

I can't speak for each of you, but I have enough chaos in my life right now - and the LAST thing I want to do is to log onto a 'Friendly' site and see people ripping on each other and carrying on.........

Everyone working on the Camaro team knows that the eyes of the world are upon the team and the car itself. The only car that could possibly have more attention would be Corvette -- but I'd also argue that the Camaro "touches" more people - and I make that statement because I've been in the unique position of being able to play "fly on the wall" at Autoshows both here and in Canada.

I'm here to tell you that I've never seen such positive reaction to a car -- or a car that makes people sit there with a smile on their faces.....(most people haven't a clue as to who the heck I am.....so it's not 'fan boys')

Does everyone fall in love with it? No. But I must tell you - those that either hate it or don't like it are far and few between.

Someone mentioned 1LE -- and yes, I think that is appropriate for this car -- but I remind everyone (....as if I have to...) that we are in Chapter 11-- and that many programs were 'shelved.' Making matters worse are recent laws where the U.S. Government decided to 'adopt' California standards in the hope that we'll get back to ONE federal Emission standard and then increase CAFE to 35mpg in an unreasonable amount of time.......... (one wonders what the Golden State will come up with next....)

..........that has put a LOT of stuff for this car on hold. (.......think "John Heinricy"....and what he felt a Camaro should be....)

Ah -- you'd be surprised at what the car -- as you buy it today -- can do; what's been shelved (...at least for now..) is nothing short of spectacular.

Now -- does that sound like an excuse or a group of excuses?

Yup.

Sorry -- the world's changed.

Some thoughts:

No matter what we, or any other manufacturer do, there will always be those dissenters and arm chair quarterbacks -- that's just human nature. But I also know that those who have 'skin' in the game have to make decisions that will not always be liked or approved of...... And I guess time will tell as to whether this Camaro is successful or not. And success is hard to define, because there are several measurements.

There are those on this board that condemned this car before it was even approved. It was, to me, obvious that some people were making their minds up on January 9, 2006. I could tell by expressions and by emails. Those people are, frankly, in the minority -- but yet they continue to hammer home that this new Camaro doesn't meet their expectations...yet they haven't driven it. And I daresay that some people will be disappointed if the car DOESN'T fail.

There are those on this site that are considered "fan-boys." (I hate that label...) I get the sense in reading various threads that if you have enthusiasm for the car, you are somehow 'less discriminating' -- or you've -- what's the saying? ....hmm ...partaken of the Kool-aid... -- that's unfortunate as well. It's almost like that by defending the new car, you're somehow 'inferior' or 'defective' -- I was going to say "mebbe it's just me' - but then people started to send me emails................and that told me that - no - it WASN'T just me......far from it.

There are those on this site that see both sides of the coin - and try to be peacemakers. God Bless you.

..and then there are always those who cannot find much nice to say about anything. The internet has brought us untold convenience -- but there IS a downside -- and I see that as what I call " 'Net-rage" -- and " 'Net-rant" -- meaning that some see it as a badge of honor if they "...put others in their place.." or "....this is the way it is or you're a moron.." -- I could give many other examples, but I think you get my meaning. To those: You may not be as knowlegeable as you THINK you are - you may want to pull your fingers back from the keyboard and think for a while - and realize that as we get older, we realize what we DON'T know........

I'm guilty of it, by the way -- and I've learned NOT to 'hit enter' until I've cooled down. That's another reason why I don't post much anymore......

I dunno - history will tell us whether we were successful or not. Again - it will depend on what the various definitions of success are.

I DO know this:

I spent years talking to people -- of all age groups and of all geographic areas. I listened to what they had to say about the various generations of Camaro -- what they liked, what they disliked; what they hated, what was unacceptable, and what their desires and expectations would be in a next gen. Camaro. As much as I was concerned about how important it was to get this right, I also realized that there are a lot of 'threads' that ran thru these conversations. I'm not saying that what I did was the end-all; rather I make the point to illustrate that I --along with many other members of the Camaro team DID listen. We did NOT make decisions in a vacuum.

As we went to people who were CONSIDERING a car like Camaro?Mustang/et.al - and when we talked to competitive owners, most of that data backed up what I'd heard. (...and for the record, my "opinions" are a very small part of what was used to develop this car...)

I STRONGLY felt that we needed Enthusiast input as we moved along - and thus "The 12 disciples of which there are 15" -- and believe me, I was blistered by a few because they did not feel I picked the right people.

Ironically, I did not pick any of the Disciples! I let the team read thru the essays and come to their own conclusion. I DID insist that we include the three alternates - thus bringing the number to 15.

I can honestly say this: The mandate that the world gave us on January 9th was very clear: "You have a winner here! -- DO NOT SCREW IT UP! - you MUST make it look like the concept car!"

We took that mandate very seriously - and I think we can all agree that the production car is the 'spit'in image' of the concept.

So - that's my 2 cents worth (...adjusted, of course, for inflation..)

I will never convince most of you to change your minds.

What I DO hope this post will do is to make people stand back for a moment - and think before they post.

(by the way -- "Paragon" lasted for - oh - about a week - and then we started to call it "Panther"...)

In closing: I hope I'll see some of you at the various shows this summer -- Camaros at Carlisle is at the end of June and I hope we'll see some of you there.

Meanwhile -- please enjoy the upcoming Independence Day Holiday with your family and friends.

And please -- buckle up -- each and every time -

"RedPlanet" signing off for now............

 

...and that is where this one needs to end.

Guys, (some of) you are not allowed to carry on like that here. There are things that simply don't need to be hashed out in public when it degrades down to two people bickering back and forth. That benefits no one and doesn't need to be here.