View Poll Results: After seeing the Camaro in the flesh...
It exceeded my expectations.
72
66.67%
It fell short of my expectations.
36
33.33%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll
Now that you've seen the Camaro in the flesh...
06-16-2009 | 02:53 PM
#91
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,375
From: Sarasota FL
There's 4 things the Gen Five Fender Humper Club really need to understand about those of us that are less than salivating fans of this car...
1) We're all Camaro enthusiasts, first and foremost. We love what we love for a reason. Third gen guys typically dislike 4th gens because of the styling, lack of unique models, etc. The famous saying over at thirdgen.org is "its easier to make a third gen faster than to make a 4th gen look better."
Meanwhile, 4th gen guys hate third gens because 3rd gens in stock form are pretty slow, rattle all over town, etc. Now we have both factions pointing out what they dislike about 5th gens. This should be no surprise to anyone. There's few people like me that truly appreciate BOTH 3rd and 4th gens, despite the fact that one is an extremely evolutionary version of the other!! Now when you have a clean sheet re-design, is it any surprise some are unimpressed in certain ways?
2) This car is Fat with an F. Period. But we expected it. Its a G8 coupe. Its a Monte Carlo footprint trying to make it as a Camaro. That's fact. Get used to it. Because of this, this time around the Mustang flat OUTHANDLES IT. This is the first time since 1981 that the Mustang crowd could say that...but now they can. Again...get used to it.
3) This car is truly a hybrid of the Challenger and the Mustang, and its a GREAT blend of both...while it excells at neither the handling/size/packaging of the Mustang nor the retro/big cruiser vibe of the Challenger. The Challenger and Mustang are more single-purpose, while the Camaro tries to ride the line between the 2.
4) Those of us at NAIAS in '06 repeatedly told GM brass that the "interior exercise" lacked a lot. We were told it was merely an exercise. It wasn't. I know Charlie and I specifically were ranking on the inside of it on the bus ride back from the show, as were others at the hotel. GM knew what it had there, and threw it out there anyway. It should surprise no one that a VOCAL, significant amount of us like the interior of this car so little that it throws the entire question of purchase in to doubt.
I seriously thought when I left NAIAS '06 that I'd be one of the first in line to order one. I could probably look up my old posts on here where I said that! Fast forward 3 years, and I feel no significant desire to rid myself of my '97 I've owned for 8 years, nor my '91 that has kept me occupied for the last 3 years while I waited for the 5th gen to show up. I thought I'd sell at least one (likely the '91) to get a down payment for a 5th gen loan.
But I'm not...
1) We're all Camaro enthusiasts, first and foremost. We love what we love for a reason. Third gen guys typically dislike 4th gens because of the styling, lack of unique models, etc. The famous saying over at thirdgen.org is "its easier to make a third gen faster than to make a 4th gen look better."
Meanwhile, 4th gen guys hate third gens because 3rd gens in stock form are pretty slow, rattle all over town, etc. Now we have both factions pointing out what they dislike about 5th gens. This should be no surprise to anyone. There's few people like me that truly appreciate BOTH 3rd and 4th gens, despite the fact that one is an extremely evolutionary version of the other!! Now when you have a clean sheet re-design, is it any surprise some are unimpressed in certain ways?2) This car is Fat with an F. Period. But we expected it. Its a G8 coupe. Its a Monte Carlo footprint trying to make it as a Camaro. That's fact. Get used to it. Because of this, this time around the Mustang flat OUTHANDLES IT. This is the first time since 1981 that the Mustang crowd could say that...but now they can. Again...get used to it.
3) This car is truly a hybrid of the Challenger and the Mustang, and its a GREAT blend of both...while it excells at neither the handling/size/packaging of the Mustang nor the retro/big cruiser vibe of the Challenger. The Challenger and Mustang are more single-purpose, while the Camaro tries to ride the line between the 2.
4) Those of us at NAIAS in '06 repeatedly told GM brass that the "interior exercise" lacked a lot. We were told it was merely an exercise. It wasn't. I know Charlie and I specifically were ranking on the inside of it on the bus ride back from the show, as were others at the hotel. GM knew what it had there, and threw it out there anyway. It should surprise no one that a VOCAL, significant amount of us like the interior of this car so little that it throws the entire question of purchase in to doubt.
I seriously thought when I left NAIAS '06 that I'd be one of the first in line to order one. I could probably look up my old posts on here where I said that! Fast forward 3 years, and I feel no significant desire to rid myself of my '97 I've owned for 8 years, nor my '91 that has kept me occupied for the last 3 years while I waited for the 5th gen to show up. I thought I'd sell at least one (likely the '91) to get a down payment for a 5th gen loan.
But I'm not...
Last edited by Jason E; 06-16-2009 at 02:57 PM.
06-16-2009 | 04:44 PM
#93
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
I seriously thought when I left NAIAS '06 that I'd be one of the first in line to order one. I could probably look up my old posts on here where I said that! Fast forward 3 years, and I feel no significant desire to rid myself of my '97 I've owned for 8 years, nor my '91 that has kept me occupied for the last 3 years while I waited for the 5th gen to show up. I thought I'd sell at least one (likely the '91) to get a down payment for a 5th gen loan.
But I'm not...
But I'm not...
Today? The production car is so damned big, bulky and massive - it has lost any and all appeal to me. The interior is merely the icing on the cake in that regard. And having no Z/28 seals the deal --- not that the Z/28 would have been what I had hoped for anyway.
Camaro-wise, I'm just crossing my fingers that Chevy hits my personal bullseye with the 6th gen.
In the meantime.....
My '89 will get a 1LE front brake conversion and some other stuff. I think I snagged one of the last pairs of new AC Delco (in the box) 1LE spindles for it.
My '83 will get a new interior. Perhaps I'll get another crack at a blue Lear Siegler, Conteur "Camaro Camaro Camaro" interior like the one I just missed out on.
And ..... I'm on the lookout for a yellow '85-'87 IROC-Z. An '85 with an L-69/M5 would be ideal. But I'd even take an '86 LG4 if it were unmolested.
Last edited by Z284ever; 06-16-2009 at 09:54 PM.
06-16-2009 | 08:40 PM
#94
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 859
From: AR (PA born and fled)
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/16/f...-ford-mustang/
Packaged aimed at performance enthusiasts
Both the 2010 V-6 and GT models feature improved handling, but Team Mustang wanted to create a distinctive option package aimed at performance enthusiasts. Starting with the 2010 GT manual coupe, the engineering team was able to create a package that hits the sweet spot.
The first ingredient was to add a high-performance summer tire, and the 19-inch Pirelli P Zero P255/40ZR-19 proved to be an inspired choice for improved grip. Ford's engineering team then went to work on the underpinnings of the 2010 Mustang GT coupe, using Ford's proven technology from the Shelby GT500 program.
The front and rear stabilizer bars from the 2009 Shelby GT500 complement the Pirelli tires and help balance the Track Pack 2010 Mustang GT coupe front to rear. The struts and shocks were retuned for the increased capability of the new tire and stabilizer bar changes. The engineering team also spent significant time at the track to ensure the Track Pack was rewarding on the track and offered a balance of spirited driving and track prowess.
The roll gradient (how much the car rolls while steering) was reduced nearly 13 percent compared with the base 2010 Mustang GT. Damping was increased by 23 percent in the front and 8 percent in the rear in the low- to mid-speed compared to the 2010 Mustang GT.
"By reducing the roll gradient, the car stays flatter in turns," said Tom Barnes, Vehicle Engineering Manager, 2010 Mustang. "And when the car is flatter, the driver is more in command and more confident in what the car's doing.
"Great handling comes from great control. A driver's control of the vehicle is facilitated by information. This Track Pack communicates to the driver through the tires and suspension so well that is it easy to drive very quickly. It rewards smooth driving, while offering great capacity to cover driver error."
Looking at all areas for improvement
In addition to the hardware changes and extensive tuning, the Ford team also took a more holistic approach to improving the Track Pack Mustang.
"Handling is not just chassis," Barnes said. "Vehicle dynamics - how the Mustang responds under acceleration and braking - is important as well."
The solution from the powertrain part of the equation was to use a 3.73 limited-slip axle with carbon-fiber clutch plates.
"The 3.73 axle allows for a more-responsive Mustang, especially at mid-range speeds," Barnes said. "The carbon-fiber plates allow a very robust architecture in terms of temperature and repeated hard driving on the track."
Performance® Friction brake pads, which better resist brake fade, are used front and rear. Both the anti-lock braking system (ABS) and AdvanceTrac were retuned to complement the advanced capabilities of the new tires and brakes. AdvanceTrac is standard on the 2010 GT coupe and can be operated in any of three modes: On, Off or Sport.
"The Track Pack covers all the bases," Barnes said. "The new tires give the Mustang more grip, we have a more-responsive acceleration, better brake linings that are more consistent over time and the car is tied down better because of the changes to the bars and the shock tuning."
"Track Pack has the grip, the handling and it has the 'go.' And it absolutely can be used as a daily driver. Track Pack offers the best of both worlds - great performance on the track or if you're cruising down the road."
Both the 2010 V-6 and GT models feature improved handling, but Team Mustang wanted to create a distinctive option package aimed at performance enthusiasts. Starting with the 2010 GT manual coupe, the engineering team was able to create a package that hits the sweet spot.
The first ingredient was to add a high-performance summer tire, and the 19-inch Pirelli P Zero P255/40ZR-19 proved to be an inspired choice for improved grip. Ford's engineering team then went to work on the underpinnings of the 2010 Mustang GT coupe, using Ford's proven technology from the Shelby GT500 program.
The front and rear stabilizer bars from the 2009 Shelby GT500 complement the Pirelli tires and help balance the Track Pack 2010 Mustang GT coupe front to rear. The struts and shocks were retuned for the increased capability of the new tire and stabilizer bar changes. The engineering team also spent significant time at the track to ensure the Track Pack was rewarding on the track and offered a balance of spirited driving and track prowess.
The roll gradient (how much the car rolls while steering) was reduced nearly 13 percent compared with the base 2010 Mustang GT. Damping was increased by 23 percent in the front and 8 percent in the rear in the low- to mid-speed compared to the 2010 Mustang GT.
"By reducing the roll gradient, the car stays flatter in turns," said Tom Barnes, Vehicle Engineering Manager, 2010 Mustang. "And when the car is flatter, the driver is more in command and more confident in what the car's doing.
"Great handling comes from great control. A driver's control of the vehicle is facilitated by information. This Track Pack communicates to the driver through the tires and suspension so well that is it easy to drive very quickly. It rewards smooth driving, while offering great capacity to cover driver error."
Looking at all areas for improvement
In addition to the hardware changes and extensive tuning, the Ford team also took a more holistic approach to improving the Track Pack Mustang.
"Handling is not just chassis," Barnes said. "Vehicle dynamics - how the Mustang responds under acceleration and braking - is important as well."
The solution from the powertrain part of the equation was to use a 3.73 limited-slip axle with carbon-fiber clutch plates.
"The 3.73 axle allows for a more-responsive Mustang, especially at mid-range speeds," Barnes said. "The carbon-fiber plates allow a very robust architecture in terms of temperature and repeated hard driving on the track."
Performance® Friction brake pads, which better resist brake fade, are used front and rear. Both the anti-lock braking system (ABS) and AdvanceTrac were retuned to complement the advanced capabilities of the new tires and brakes. AdvanceTrac is standard on the 2010 GT coupe and can be operated in any of three modes: On, Off or Sport.
"The Track Pack covers all the bases," Barnes said. "The new tires give the Mustang more grip, we have a more-responsive acceleration, better brake linings that are more consistent over time and the car is tied down better because of the changes to the bars and the shock tuning."
"Track Pack has the grip, the handling and it has the 'go.' And it absolutely can be used as a daily driver. Track Pack offers the best of both worlds - great performance on the track or if you're cruising down the road."
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...rack_pack.html
While they are aiming for a late 2009 introduction, Mustang engineers brought out three '10 Mustang GTs equipped with the upcoming Track Pack. The Track Pack includes revised front and rear stabilizer bars, upper strut mounts, and rear, lower control arms from the '09 Shelby Mustang. Coil springs are the same as on the base GT, but the struts and shocks are cut from a clean sheet. Both the front and rear brake pads are upgraded, and the 3.73-cogged Traction-Lok differential is fitted with carbon fiber friction plates. As if that weren't enough, the engineering team managed to push through an even better tire package consisting of Pirelli P Zero summer performance tires, sized 255/40/19. While they hadn't quite finished with the Advance Trac tuning at the time of our test, the Track Pack-equipped cars will get unique stability tuning as well.
Our sources at Ford state the Track pack option will be affordable at $1,495. According to Ford, braking distances have decreased thanks to the pad upgrades and the better rubber selection. Manufacturer testing claims an increase from 0.90 to 0.93 on the skidpad with the Track Pack, and slalom speed improved by 2 mph. On the track, we couldn't give a very a good assessment of the Track Pack's road manners, given the smooth surface we were driving on, but the confidence-inspiring suspension mods should be very pleasing to the weekend road course or autocross enthusiast. With the Mustang's three-link/Panhard bar rear suspension being relatively new, the engineering team sure seems to have it dialed in.
All good things must come to an end, though, and so did our time at Willow Springs. So we grabbed a Sunset Gold Metallic GT for our trip back to the hotel. Equipped with the glass roof option, automatic transmission, and navigation/Sync options, it was a plush ride. Even the automatic shifter was upgraded for 2010. We'll take the Track Pack option and be much happier for much less money, though.
Was there anything we didn't like about the '10 Mustang? Not really. This author isn't completely sold on all of the styling changes, but that opinion will vary greatly from person to person. Concerning all of the other changes Ford has made, we'd say our favorite automaker has gone above and beyond what one might have expected.
For 2010, the Mustang GT has grown up and learned some manners, but it has done so without losing any of its adolescent, tire-smoking appeal. The new, aggressive styling seems to be a hit with most folks, and we can tell you that the driving experience behind the wheel is better than its predecessor. Ford has added a lot of value with things like LED sequential taillamps, EasyFuel cap-less fuel filler system, optional reverse camera, and dual-zone temperature controls. For those considering a V-6 Mustang, the engineers have been hard at work improving that model, too. Just when you thought the '05 Mustang was a home run, Team Mustang has hit a grand slam.
Our sources at Ford state the Track pack option will be affordable at $1,495. According to Ford, braking distances have decreased thanks to the pad upgrades and the better rubber selection. Manufacturer testing claims an increase from 0.90 to 0.93 on the skidpad with the Track Pack, and slalom speed improved by 2 mph. On the track, we couldn't give a very a good assessment of the Track Pack's road manners, given the smooth surface we were driving on, but the confidence-inspiring suspension mods should be very pleasing to the weekend road course or autocross enthusiast. With the Mustang's three-link/Panhard bar rear suspension being relatively new, the engineering team sure seems to have it dialed in.
All good things must come to an end, though, and so did our time at Willow Springs. So we grabbed a Sunset Gold Metallic GT for our trip back to the hotel. Equipped with the glass roof option, automatic transmission, and navigation/Sync options, it was a plush ride. Even the automatic shifter was upgraded for 2010. We'll take the Track Pack option and be much happier for much less money, though.
Was there anything we didn't like about the '10 Mustang? Not really. This author isn't completely sold on all of the styling changes, but that opinion will vary greatly from person to person. Concerning all of the other changes Ford has made, we'd say our favorite automaker has gone above and beyond what one might have expected.
For 2010, the Mustang GT has grown up and learned some manners, but it has done so without losing any of its adolescent, tire-smoking appeal. The new, aggressive styling seems to be a hit with most folks, and we can tell you that the driving experience behind the wheel is better than its predecessor. Ford has added a lot of value with things like LED sequential taillamps, EasyFuel cap-less fuel filler system, optional reverse camera, and dual-zone temperature controls. For those considering a V-6 Mustang, the engineers have been hard at work improving that model, too. Just when you thought the '05 Mustang was a home run, Team Mustang has hit a grand slam.
06-16-2009 | 10:44 PM
#95
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,214
From: City of Champions, MA, USA
There's 4 things the Gen Five Fender Humper Club really need to understand about those of us that are less than salivating fans of this car...
1) We're all Camaro enthusiasts, first and foremost. We love what we love for a reason. Third gen guys typically dislike 4th gens because of the styling, lack of unique models, etc. The famous saying over at thirdgen.org is "its easier to make a third gen faster than to make a 4th gen look better." Meanwhile, 4th gen guys hate third gens because 3rd gens in stock form are pretty slow, rattle all over town, etc. Now we have both factions pointing out what they dislike about 5th gens. This should be no surprise to anyone. There's few people like me that truly appreciate BOTH 3rd and 4th gens, despite the fact that one is an extremely evolutionary version of the other!! Now when you have a clean sheet re-design, is it any surprise some are unimpressed in certain ways?
2) This car is Fat with an F. Period. But we expected it. Its a G8 coupe. Its a Monte Carlo footprint trying to make it as a Camaro. That's fact. Get used to it. Because of this, this time around the Mustang flat OUTHANDLES IT. This is the first time since 1981 that the Mustang crowd could say that...but now they can. Again...get used to it.
3) This car is truly a hybrid of the Challenger and the Mustang, and its a GREAT blend of both...while it excells at neither the handling/size/packaging of the Mustang nor the retro/big cruiser vibe of the Challenger. The Challenger and Mustang are more single-purpose, while the Camaro tries to ride the line between the 2.
4) Those of us at NAIAS in '06 repeatedly told GM brass that the "interior exercise" lacked a lot. We were told it was merely an exercise. It wasn't. I know Charlie and I specifically were ranking on the inside of it on the bus ride back from the show, as were others at the hotel. GM knew what it had there, and threw it out there anyway. It should surprise no one that a VOCAL, significant amount of us like the interior of this car so little that it throws the entire question of purchase in to doubt.
I seriously thought when I left NAIAS '06 that I'd be one of the first in line to order one. I could probably look up my old posts on here where I said that! Fast forward 3 years, and I feel no significant desire to rid myself of my '97 I've owned for 8 years, nor my '91 that has kept me occupied for the last 3 years while I waited for the 5th gen to show up. I thought I'd sell at least one (likely the '91) to get a down payment for a 5th gen loan.
But I'm not...
1) We're all Camaro enthusiasts, first and foremost. We love what we love for a reason. Third gen guys typically dislike 4th gens because of the styling, lack of unique models, etc. The famous saying over at thirdgen.org is "its easier to make a third gen faster than to make a 4th gen look better."
Meanwhile, 4th gen guys hate third gens because 3rd gens in stock form are pretty slow, rattle all over town, etc. Now we have both factions pointing out what they dislike about 5th gens. This should be no surprise to anyone. There's few people like me that truly appreciate BOTH 3rd and 4th gens, despite the fact that one is an extremely evolutionary version of the other!! Now when you have a clean sheet re-design, is it any surprise some are unimpressed in certain ways?2) This car is Fat with an F. Period. But we expected it. Its a G8 coupe. Its a Monte Carlo footprint trying to make it as a Camaro. That's fact. Get used to it. Because of this, this time around the Mustang flat OUTHANDLES IT. This is the first time since 1981 that the Mustang crowd could say that...but now they can. Again...get used to it.
3) This car is truly a hybrid of the Challenger and the Mustang, and its a GREAT blend of both...while it excells at neither the handling/size/packaging of the Mustang nor the retro/big cruiser vibe of the Challenger. The Challenger and Mustang are more single-purpose, while the Camaro tries to ride the line between the 2.
4) Those of us at NAIAS in '06 repeatedly told GM brass that the "interior exercise" lacked a lot. We were told it was merely an exercise. It wasn't. I know Charlie and I specifically were ranking on the inside of it on the bus ride back from the show, as were others at the hotel. GM knew what it had there, and threw it out there anyway. It should surprise no one that a VOCAL, significant amount of us like the interior of this car so little that it throws the entire question of purchase in to doubt.
I seriously thought when I left NAIAS '06 that I'd be one of the first in line to order one. I could probably look up my old posts on here where I said that! Fast forward 3 years, and I feel no significant desire to rid myself of my '97 I've owned for 8 years, nor my '91 that has kept me occupied for the last 3 years while I waited for the 5th gen to show up. I thought I'd sell at least one (likely the '91) to get a down payment for a 5th gen loan.
But I'm not...
I thought I'd be the first in line to order - more than one - 5th gen back then too, Jason.
Today? The production car is so damned big, bulky and massive - it has lost any and all appeal to me. The interior is merely the icing on the cake in that regard. And having no Z/28 seals the deal --- not that the Z/28 would have been what I had hoped for anyway.
Camaro-wise, I'm just crossing my fingers that Chevy hits my personal bullseye with the 6th gen.
In the meantime.....
My '89 will get a 1LE front brake conversion and some other stuff. I think I snagged one of the last pairs of new AC Delco (in the box) 1LE spindles for it.
My '83 will get a new interior. Perhaps I'll get another crack at a blue Lear Siegler, Conteur "Camaro Camaro Camaro" interior like the one I just missed out on.
And ..... I'm on the lookout for a yellow '85-'87 IROC-Z. An '85 with an L-69/M5 would be ideal. But I'd even take an '86 LG4 if it were unmolested.
Today? The production car is so damned big, bulky and massive - it has lost any and all appeal to me. The interior is merely the icing on the cake in that regard. And having no Z/28 seals the deal --- not that the Z/28 would have been what I had hoped for anyway.
Camaro-wise, I'm just crossing my fingers that Chevy hits my personal bullseye with the 6th gen.
In the meantime.....
My '89 will get a 1LE front brake conversion and some other stuff. I think I snagged one of the last pairs of new AC Delco (in the box) 1LE spindles for it.
My '83 will get a new interior. Perhaps I'll get another crack at a blue Lear Siegler, Conteur "Camaro Camaro Camaro" interior like the one I just missed out on.
And ..... I'm on the lookout for a yellow '85-'87 IROC-Z. An '85 with an L-69/M5 would be ideal. But I'd even take an '86 LG4 if it were unmolested.
The thing is, so what? So a few enthusiasts aren't happy with the car. I could have told you that would happen back in 2002.
The thirdgen is the car everyone loves to hate and the fourthgen is the car everyone hates. I am so glad the 5th is not either of them. "Die hard Camaro Enthusiasts" that you guys claim you are have proven to not be enough buying power to keep a car alive. The 5th gen is a runaway smash with the general public. They don't care about how much it weighs or how much its not a 4th gen, as a matter of fact they are probably very happy about that last one.
Regardless of what a few think on here(which is not a good indicator of Camaro's current buyers) that big stance is what has everyone talking and crowding around the cars where ever they go.
What makes one a " Gen Five Fender Humper Club " member? Admitting that this is a vast improvement over ANY Camaro ever? I love both my 3rd and 4th but they cannot compare to the 5ths styling, chasis, powertrain, economy and technology.
06-16-2009 | 11:01 PM
#96
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
The thing is, so what? So a few enthusiasts aren't happy with the car. I could have told you that would happen back in 2002.
The thirdgen is the car everyone loves to hate and the fourthgen is the car everyone hates. I am so glad the 5th is not either of them. "Die hard Camaro Enthusiasts" that you guys claim you are have proven to not be enough buying power to keep a car alive. The 5th gen is a runaway smash with the general public. They don't care about how much it weighs or how much its not a 4th gen, as a matter of fact they are probably very happy about that last one.
Regardless of what a few think on here(which is not a good indicator of Camaro's current buyers) that big stance is what has everyone talking and crowding around the cars where ever they go.
What makes one a " Gen Five Fender Humper Club " member? Admitting that this is a vast improvement over ANY Camaro ever? I love both my 3rd and 4th but they cannot compare to the 5ths styling, chasis, powertrain, economy and technology.
The thirdgen is the car everyone loves to hate and the fourthgen is the car everyone hates. I am so glad the 5th is not either of them. "Die hard Camaro Enthusiasts" that you guys claim you are have proven to not be enough buying power to keep a car alive. The 5th gen is a runaway smash with the general public. They don't care about how much it weighs or how much its not a 4th gen, as a matter of fact they are probably very happy about that last one.
Regardless of what a few think on here(which is not a good indicator of Camaro's current buyers) that big stance is what has everyone talking and crowding around the cars where ever they go.
What makes one a " Gen Five Fender Humper Club " member? Admitting that this is a vast improvement over ANY Camaro ever? I love both my 3rd and 4th but they cannot compare to the 5ths styling, chasis, powertrain, economy and technology.
If you like the car, go buy one and enjoy it.
06-17-2009 | 02:36 AM
#97
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
I will likely buy a Camaro. It is not perfect...but I have a lot of emotional attachment to it being back, and I understand that if no one buys it, it won't stay around. Turning your nose up to the 5th gen, and already planning for the 6th gen is short sighted and hypocritical. I also wonder how many people complaining about the size have actually driven an SS or G8 GXP for that matter.
For instance I have spent a lot of time behind the wheel recently of a C6, G8 GXP, and Charger SRT8.
Charger SRT8 = Holy smackers...this thing rides like a roided up old B-body
Corvette = Like driving a fiberglass go cart...but also "feels" like a fiberglass go cart
G8 GXP = Call Goldie Locks..this thing is just right.
The G8 GXP feels and stops like it is 500lbs lighter. Now there are some out there who say that is fubar..but I am telling you drive the damn thing and get the facination with numbers out you head.
Lastly..I too hate the interior. I honestly wish GM just used the G8 interior, and put that money into making the car lighter. From what I can tell the interior is just ugly, and poorly designed..however the materials are average for the price class. Personally however, I think any grand standing, and nose turning up by people who own 3rd and 4th gen Camaro's in unjust.
For instance I have spent a lot of time behind the wheel recently of a C6, G8 GXP, and Charger SRT8.
Charger SRT8 = Holy smackers...this thing rides like a roided up old B-body
Corvette = Like driving a fiberglass go cart...but also "feels" like a fiberglass go cart
G8 GXP = Call Goldie Locks..this thing is just right.
The G8 GXP feels and stops like it is 500lbs lighter. Now there are some out there who say that is fubar..but I am telling you drive the damn thing and get the facination with numbers out you head.
Lastly..I too hate the interior. I honestly wish GM just used the G8 interior, and put that money into making the car lighter. From what I can tell the interior is just ugly, and poorly designed..however the materials are average for the price class. Personally however, I think any grand standing, and nose turning up by people who own 3rd and 4th gen Camaro's in unjust.
06-17-2009 | 06:22 AM
#98
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,139
From: Commerce, mi, USA
The thing is, so what? So a few enthusiasts aren't happy with the car. I could have told you that would happen back in 2002.
The thirdgen is the car everyone loves to hate and the fourthgen is the car everyone hates. I am so glad the 5th is not either of them. "Die hard Camaro Enthusiasts" that you guys claim you are have proven to not be enough buying power to keep a car alive. The 5th gen is a runaway smash with the general public. They don't care about how much it weighs or how much its not a 4th gen, as a matter of fact they are probably very happy about that last one.
Regardless of what a few think on here(which is not a good indicator of Camaro's current buyers) that big stance is what has everyone talking and crowding around the cars where ever they go.
What makes one a " Gen Five Fender Humper Club " member? Admitting that this is a vast improvement over ANY Camaro ever? I love both my 3rd and 4th but they cannot compare to the 5ths styling, chasis, powertrain, economy and technology.
The thirdgen is the car everyone loves to hate and the fourthgen is the car everyone hates. I am so glad the 5th is not either of them. "Die hard Camaro Enthusiasts" that you guys claim you are have proven to not be enough buying power to keep a car alive. The 5th gen is a runaway smash with the general public. They don't care about how much it weighs or how much its not a 4th gen, as a matter of fact they are probably very happy about that last one.
Regardless of what a few think on here(which is not a good indicator of Camaro's current buyers) that big stance is what has everyone talking and crowding around the cars where ever they go.
What makes one a " Gen Five Fender Humper Club " member? Admitting that this is a vast improvement over ANY Camaro ever? I love both my 3rd and 4th but they cannot compare to the 5ths styling, chasis, powertrain, economy and technology.
1. The new Camaro is by far, the best Camaro ever. Measure it by performance, performance/MPG, crashworthiness, modern features like stability control and turn-by-turn realtime navigation, etc... it's world-class and still manages to remain true to its rich, deep heritage.
2. The car is also true to its stunning concept design vision, which swept the auto design world off its feet in the show circuit. It's a magnificent, swooping, muscular shape not watered down for humdrum production concerns or hand-wringing about having the right shape for being nice to stray raccoons wandering into its path. (Instead, it looks to be ready to eat them as a little snack).
3. The design team did a splendid job of packing the new Camaro with the features highly valued by this buying segment (potent V6 and V8 offerings, wide array of rim/tire choices, RS headlights, innovative ambient lighting scheme, etc), but still keeping a mainstream price (again, for this segment, not compared to a Cruze or Corolla).
This is why despite a vocal perpetually bitter minority here, crowds continually gather around the new Camaro, wherever it parks and graces a parking lot with its presence
Last edited by BigDarknFast; 06-17-2009 at 06:28 AM.
06-17-2009 | 07:17 AM
#99
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,375
From: Sarasota FL
The thing is, so what? So a few enthusiasts aren't happy with the car. I could have told you that would happen back in 2002.
The thirdgen is the car everyone loves to hate and the fourthgen is the car everyone hates. I am so glad the 5th is not either of them. "Die hard Camaro Enthusiasts" that you guys claim you are have proven to not be enough buying power to keep a car alive. The 5th gen is a runaway smash with the general public. They don't care about how much it weighs or how much its not a 4th gen, as a matter of fact they are probably very happy about that last one.
Regardless of what a few think on here(which is not a good indicator of Camaro's current buyers) that big stance is what has everyone talking and crowding around the cars where ever they go.
What makes one a " Gen Five Fender Humper Club " member? Admitting that this is a vast improvement over ANY Camaro ever? I love both my 3rd and 4th but they cannot compare to the 5ths styling, chasis, powertrain, economy and technology.
The thirdgen is the car everyone loves to hate and the fourthgen is the car everyone hates. I am so glad the 5th is not either of them. "Die hard Camaro Enthusiasts" that you guys claim you are have proven to not be enough buying power to keep a car alive. The 5th gen is a runaway smash with the general public. They don't care about how much it weighs or how much its not a 4th gen, as a matter of fact they are probably very happy about that last one.
Regardless of what a few think on here(which is not a good indicator of Camaro's current buyers) that big stance is what has everyone talking and crowding around the cars where ever they go.
What makes one a " Gen Five Fender Humper Club " member? Admitting that this is a vast improvement over ANY Camaro ever? I love both my 3rd and 4th but they cannot compare to the 5ths styling, chasis, powertrain, economy and technology.
Listen, it isn't that anyone is saying the 5th gen isn't necessarily a better car...without a doubt, it is. Our point is, it SHOULD BE vastly better. Our point is, it SHOULD be better in certain ways than it is.
There is no excuse for a Mustang to outhandle this car...is there? GM had the ability to avoid that. There is no excuse to build an interior that odd looking...is there? C&D likened the IP to looking like Elton John in one picture, and I can see what they mean
With that said, I agree with Charlie...go buy one if you love it! I like it in a TON of ways...I just don't love it at this point. I love the powertrains...the sinister styling...2 things Camaros have always been great at. But they don't stick to the road like Velcro...one thing that if I was in the market today for a performance car, I'd insist on.
I want this car to be a smash hit. I want GM to sell every single car it can. I'm proud of them for getting this car to market. I was honored to have been invited to NAIAS to see it. I bleed GM almost as much as anyone here. I've sold Mopars for almost 4 years, yet 3 of the 4 cars I own are GM...and if I bought a new one today, aside from a Challenger, it would be another GM.
But the car doesn't have the interior or the handling some of us expected. Accept it.
06-17-2009 | 07:29 AM
#100
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
2) This car is Fat with an F. Period. But we expected it. Its a G8 coupe. Its a Monte Carlo footprint trying to make it as a Camaro. That's fact. Get used to it. Because of this, this time around the Mustang flat OUTHANDLES IT. This is the first time since 1981 that the Mustang crowd could say that...but now they can. Again...get used to it.
Another thing that bugs me...A lot of people bitch about the 20" wheels, and then say they would rather have a track package Mustang, Corvette, or 370Z, but those all come with 19" wheels
20" are too big but 19" is ok??? Give me a break.
Last edited by Z28x; 06-17-2009 at 07:34 AM.
06-17-2009 | 07:56 AM
#101
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,072
From: Lilburn, GA, USA
I have to agree that the car does look very big and it's portliness doesn't help things. I don't know that it matters to me much though. I think the Camaro looks good and the Challenger too for that matter. The problem is, I wouldn't buy either of them at this point for a variety of reasons. I am let down by the current car. Although I do like it, I prefer something else. That is why I am going to buy a used ZO6 instead.
06-17-2009 | 09:12 AM
#102
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,214
From: City of Champions, MA, USA
I guess as soon as GM read about the track pack they should have scrambled to the drawing board to see what limited run suspension package they could offer on the Camaro? Why, when the Camaro needs no help in sales right now? Maybe next year they will offer something like that. The car just came out after a 7 year hiatus and everyone is upset that everything isn't offered right away.
The interior is a matter of opinion. Lots of people love it. Some don't like it. Sounds like pretty much everything else in the world.
06-17-2009 | 10:20 AM
#103
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 3,252
From: Knoxville, TN
Bingo! Exactly. I couldn't have said it any better. The usual same five or six vocal critics of curb weight, interior, compare-it-to-Mustangs, oh-no-lacks-Z28-badge, oh-no-lacks-"/"-in-Z28 have completed their recurring duty to chime in on another thread... yet, the overall observations by the general public remain the same:
1. The new Camaro is by far, the best Camaro ever. Measure it by performance, performance/MPG, crashworthiness, modern features like stability control and turn-by-turn realtime navigation, etc... it's world-class and still manages to remain true to its rich, deep heritage.
2. The car is also true to its stunning concept design vision, which swept the auto design world off its feet in the show circuit. It's a magnificent, swooping, muscular shape not watered down for humdrum production concerns or hand-wringing about having the right shape for being nice to stray raccoons wandering into its path. (Instead, it looks to be ready to eat them as a little snack).
3. The design team did a splendid job of packing the new Camaro with the features highly valued by this buying segment (potent V6 and V8 offerings, wide array of rim/tire choices, RS headlights, innovative ambient lighting scheme, etc), but still keeping a mainstream price (again, for this segment, not compared to a Cruze or Corolla).
1. The new Camaro is by far, the best Camaro ever. Measure it by performance, performance/MPG, crashworthiness, modern features like stability control and turn-by-turn realtime navigation, etc... it's world-class and still manages to remain true to its rich, deep heritage.
2. The car is also true to its stunning concept design vision, which swept the auto design world off its feet in the show circuit. It's a magnificent, swooping, muscular shape not watered down for humdrum production concerns or hand-wringing about having the right shape for being nice to stray raccoons wandering into its path. (Instead, it looks to be ready to eat them as a little snack).
3. The design team did a splendid job of packing the new Camaro with the features highly valued by this buying segment (potent V6 and V8 offerings, wide array of rim/tire choices, RS headlights, innovative ambient lighting scheme, etc), but still keeping a mainstream price (again, for this segment, not compared to a Cruze or Corolla).
But I just gotta say.....reading that.....that......whatever that is I just quoted made me simultaneously want to puke and laugh at the same time!
Bob
06-17-2009 | 10:41 AM
#104
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,023
From: Newhall, CA USA
Finally saw one on the road this weekend.
My visceral response: meh.
My more considered response: pig, pig, piggy, pigola, pigster, pigomaximus. Now, it's not entirely the Camaro's fault that the trend is towards bigger, bulkier, taller cars with stupid-sized wheels to help offset the overall height, but, man, a 3rd gen is what, 6" shorter than this thing? Height-wise, that is. This is one chunky monkey. This is a big guy.
In short, not for me. If it's your thing, cool.
My visceral response: meh.
My more considered response: pig, pig, piggy, pigola, pigster, pigomaximus. Now, it's not entirely the Camaro's fault that the trend is towards bigger, bulkier, taller cars with stupid-sized wheels to help offset the overall height, but, man, a 3rd gen is what, 6" shorter than this thing? Height-wise, that is. This is one chunky monkey. This is a big guy.
In short, not for me. If it's your thing, cool.
06-17-2009 | 11:09 AM
#105
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
Considering that you seem to buy a new car about every 90 days...I'm sure you will.
Oh, explain this......
Oh, explain this......