Maybe it was the driver but I think the Boxster is too low a target.

From what I've seen at AutoX I would suggest the early Miata be handling/performance target for the N/A Solstice and the S2000 be the target for the Supercharged Solstice.

 

Is it really fair (or realistic) that everyone seems to want a low $20's car, yet the performace / content /quality targets everyone keeps mentioning are cars like Boxster, S2000 and Z4?

 

To a large extent, yes it is.

Ah, but now you're talking cost, something entirely different.

Cars are priced at what the market will bear. It's not a simple matter of saying "let's mark up every vehicles' cost by 15% and that will be our MSRP." A perfect example of this is the CTS-V. The LS6 likely doesn't cost any more to produce than the HFV6, yet the CTS-V commands a $10,000 premium. This is because people are willing to pay for those extra two cylinders, not because it costs more to make.

 

I think its a very feasible idea. Look at the Neon SRT-4, (I realize it is only a Neon, but bear with me here) that car was able to offer performance that was on par with cars that cost nearly twice as much as it does. Why can't GM do the same with the Solsitce? The Nissan 350Z was the same way, even though its closer in price to its benchmark, the Boxster S. The Z is able to nearly match the Porsche's level of performance at a much cheaper price.

 

Good point. But I think what is being said is that GM has to come out with something extraordinary to grab everyone's attention and make some waves. If the Solstice is only average in its segment, what will compell people to buy it? It's kind of like what Lexus did with the original LS400: they gave you Mercedes engineering (or better) at a far lower price, and that gave them instant credibility in the market.

 

Right, and if they had used a twin turbo version of the HFV6 (which was on the table at one point), it would still cost what it does. Similarly, the Honda S2000 would likely cost something close to what it does if they had used a hopped up 3.0 V6 rather than a 4 cylinder. My point was that it is not the engine cylinder layout that DIRECTLY decides the price. It is, like you said, the market (although cost is CERTAINLY a huge part of it when developing a new car from scratch). When making a business case for a new car like the Solstice (any new car), if the car can't be built for less than x dollars and sold for y dollars in z volume, it won't be approved. However, the number of engine cylinders could affect it from a marketing standpoint, which affects the volume factor. So it matters what engine is appropriate for the car and how it can be marketed. In some circles (on an Fbody board, for example), a V8 is considered a "premium" over a 4 cylinder. But ask an S2000 owner if he'd like to have a bigger, heavier, "lower tech" pushrod V8 under the hood, and many would probably laugh at you. So if the engine fits the car's marketing position and image, you are golden.

The whole point of this was your use of the Solstice coming in at a high price being bad for the possibility of an affordable Fbody replacement. My point was that even with only 4 cylinders, and IF the Solstice came in over 25K, that isn't necessarily bad news for the Fbod. If that Solstice had the high technology (VVT, turbo/supercharger, etc.) and the performance and interior quality and appropriate volume planning to support the price, then it is justified in its own right. That wouldn't mean that a higher volume, high po V8 Fbody couldn't be done for a similar price, even with the 4 extra cylinders. Cost shows up in a zillion other places (interior, chassis, etc), and volume is a big factor there.

What I do fear about your scenario, though, is that IF the Solstice came out at 27k or something way beyond Lutz's promise, and it is supposed to be "affordable" (which it certainly is, relative to the Vette), THAT could be bad for the 5th gen b/c it would mean that approaching 30k is considered "affordable" nowadays. Not good when I'd like to see a V8 powered high performance coupe available in the mid 20s without a bunch of b.s. luxury crap...

The base price on my '96 B4C was around 14 something, loaded up with everything but leather, t-tops, auto, and power seat it came to 21k. That is a far cry from 30+...

 

One major notable difference here.

Neon sells in relatively massive quanities compared to what the Solstice will probally sell. All those Neon sedans make the SRT-4 essentially an engine option (relatively cheap) versus the Solstice which is a entire car (no where near as cheap).

Also, the Nissan 350Z is sold worldwide in pretty large numbers. The key to Solstice being profitable is it's chassis selling in great quanities. That's why the big push at GM to find another outlet for the Solstice chassis & drive train such as Buick, Opel, Vauxhall, or even Saturn. Without [i]volume[/b], Solstice will likely go the way of the Fiero... regardless as to how good it is, or how world class it's abilities are.

 

I hope they make it a somewhat entry level priced sports car to bring in some younger buyers. We need to steal some of Honda's thunder in that area of the market. Hopefully they will sell well and have a big aftermarket. Hopefully GM will help the aftermarket. If they do this car right, it can be good for all of GM, including the 5th gen.

 

Very true. So, which divisions are still in the hunt for the kappa platform? The Buick Bengal was shelved last I heard, and the Saturn Sky might have been too. Opel supposedly axed the idea when they couldn't get a V8 to go in their version. Chevy hasn't shown any interest from what has been mentioned on here, and the Aussies don't have much of a convertible market. I wonder though if the coupe version of the kappa car would have a market down under. Or maybe Saab could have a modern day Sonnet? Vauxhall is still an option too, I suppose.