Advice Needed on Fuel set up for 500+ RWHP
#46
Originally posted by 97TA-WS6-Con
Jack
i just installed your dual in tank system - very nice piece - but I was wondering about the battery connections. You sent a replacement POS battery post and the two cables I assume are suppose to connect there, and you also have a black grounding wire that is suppose to go to the NEG side.
BUT, my current NEG battery wire precludes attaching the black wire to it so I intended to connect it to the NEG post on the body. Because of THAT I had to connect the two POS wires to the power junction post on the POS battery post on the body as well.
In other words, the three wires are attached at the body NOT directly to the battery.
Is that OK?
Jack
i just installed your dual in tank system - very nice piece - but I was wondering about the battery connections. You sent a replacement POS battery post and the two cables I assume are suppose to connect there, and you also have a black grounding wire that is suppose to go to the NEG side.
BUT, my current NEG battery wire precludes attaching the black wire to it so I intended to connect it to the NEG post on the body. Because of THAT I had to connect the two POS wires to the power junction post on the POS battery post on the body as well.
In other words, the three wires are attached at the body NOT directly to the battery.
Is that OK?
The red and blue wire from the Racetronix harness go to the accessory tap on the positive (+) brass battery terminal. The body ground upgrade cable and the thin black wire from the Racetronix harness go to the accessory tap on the negative (-) brass battery terminal. The chassis ground side of the body ground upgrade cable goes to any large body bolt in within reach.
Apart from this everything stays the same as factory and non of the factory wire locations should change.
Jack
Racetronix
#47
9SECONDLX
Thank you for responding to my post. I had a few more questions for you please..
What kind of Transmission you were running when you made 530 REAR Wheel HP?
Was it a A4, is so what kind of Torque Convertor where you using?
Did you ever run the car at the Track, what kinda ET and MPH were you getting and what was the race weight?
Thanks,
Thank you for responding to my post. I had a few more questions for you please..
What kind of Transmission you were running when you made 530 REAR Wheel HP?
Was it a A4, is so what kind of Torque Convertor where you using?
Did you ever run the car at the Track, what kinda ET and MPH were you getting and what was the race weight?
Thanks,
Last edited by 95 Silver TA; 03-04-2003 at 12:06 PM.
#48
stock 6spd with an rps clutch.
unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.
also it was 530 rear torque
unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.
also it was 530 rear torque
#49
Originally posted by 9SECONDLX
stock 6spd with an rps clutch.
unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.
also it was 530 rear torque
stock 6spd with an rps clutch.
unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.
also it was 530 rear torque
Thanks again bro. Your responses is very much appreciated!
Claude
#50
Originally posted by 9SECONDLX
stock 6spd with an rps clutch.
unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.
also it was 530 rear torque
stock 6spd with an rps clutch.
unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.
also it was 530 rear torque
#52
Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
thank You for replying....
I currently have the GSS340 Walboro Intank Pump without the Racetronics wiring kit. They wanted like 110.00 Shipped just for the wiring harness. I dont know if that is a fair price for a wiring kit that raises voltage to the pump to 1 volt and a few amps. I do know its a nice piece, however 110.00 shipped (mabee not that nice). I think I can just run a 5 dollar 10 gauge wire from my battery to the relay for the pump and Possibly get a .5 volt increase (For only 5 bucks).
Do you see my Point about the wiring harness from RaceTronics or Is that Wiring Harness THAT good?
Is it worth the 110.00 shipped? Will it really make that much of a difference?
thank You for replying....
I currently have the GSS340 Walboro Intank Pump without the Racetronics wiring kit. They wanted like 110.00 Shipped just for the wiring harness. I dont know if that is a fair price for a wiring kit that raises voltage to the pump to 1 volt and a few amps. I do know its a nice piece, however 110.00 shipped (mabee not that nice). I think I can just run a 5 dollar 10 gauge wire from my battery to the relay for the pump and Possibly get a .5 volt increase (For only 5 bucks).
Do you see my Point about the wiring harness from RaceTronics or Is that Wiring Harness THAT good?
Is it worth the 110.00 shipped? Will it really make that much of a difference?
anyone with any electronic background can build the harness their self. its just using a simple relay and circuit. Use the + wire of the car harness going to the fuel pump to activate the new relay and run a big gauge (-) (+) and mount the relay close to the pump with a relativity short as possible wire. this will fix the voltage drop. Also run a 12gauge wire (fused) to the battery for the relay support.
Any questions just email me
#53
Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
anyone with any electronic background can build the harness their self. its just using a simple relay and circuit. Use the + wire of the car harness going to the fuel pump to activate the new relay and run a big gauge (-) (+) and mount the relay close to the pump with a relativity short as possible wire. this will fix the voltage drop. Also run a 12gauge wire (fused) to the battery for the relay support.
Any questions just email me
anyone with any electronic background can build the harness their self. its just using a simple relay and circuit. Use the + wire of the car harness going to the fuel pump to activate the new relay and run a big gauge (-) (+) and mount the relay close to the pump with a relativity short as possible wire. this will fix the voltage drop. Also run a 12gauge wire (fused) to the battery for the relay support.
Any questions just email me
PS. You don't run the power wire to the battery as the voltage there can be much lower than at the alternator. This is why the Racetronix harness has the weatherproof fuse holder designed to mount on the back of the alternator.
Jack
Racetronix
#54
Originally posted by Racetronix
Yes, you can build a harness yourself in a couple hours out of off-the-shelf components, crimping and soldering under your car near gas fumes on your back under your car.... OR you can buy the Racetronix system, have everything waterproof with GM factory components and simply plug everything in a matter of minutes.
PS. You don't run the power wire to the battery as the voltage there can be much lower than at the alternator. This is why the Racetronix harness has the weatherproof fuse holder designed to mount on the back of the alternator.
Jack
Racetronix
Yes, you can build a harness yourself in a couple hours out of off-the-shelf components, crimping and soldering under your car near gas fumes on your back under your car.... OR you can buy the Racetronix system, have everything waterproof with GM factory components and simply plug everything in a matter of minutes.
PS. You don't run the power wire to the battery as the voltage there can be much lower than at the alternator. This is why the Racetronix harness has the weatherproof fuse holder designed to mount on the back of the alternator.
Jack
Racetronix
Thanks
#55
Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Negative my friend!! Same pwr and amps at the battery for this output capacity of 1-2 fuel pumps. If we were dealing with more amps then maybe the question would be there. Also you have a direct 8-10gauge wire coming from the alternator to the battery distribution block.
Thanks
Negative my friend!! Same pwr and amps at the battery for this output capacity of 1-2 fuel pumps. If we were dealing with more amps then maybe the question would be there. Also you have a direct 8-10gauge wire coming from the alternator to the battery distribution block.
Thanks
Under high alternator load / charge conditions the voltage drop across the alternator's output and battery terminals can exceed 1.5 volts. This is because the factory alternator wire is not thick enough to handle a 90+ amp charge current without substantial voltage drop. Under WOT conditions the voltage at the alternator can be 14.5 while at the battery it can be 12.5. There are also deficiencies with the factory grounding system that is why we supply a ground upgrade kit with brass battery nuts. We have done our homework in this area now it is time to do yours.
Jack
Racetronix
Last edited by Racetronix; 05-02-2003 at 11:12 AM.
#56
Originally posted by Racetronix
No, you are in error!
Under high alternator load / charge conditions the voltage drop across the alternator's output and battery terminals can exceed 1.5 volts. This is because the factory alternator wire is not thick enough to handle a 90+ amp charge current without substantial voltage drop. Under WOT conditions the voltage at the alternator can be 14.5 while at the battery it can be 12.5. There are also deficiencies with the factory grounding system that is why we supply a ground upgrade kit with brass battery nuts. We have done our homework in this area now it is time to do yours.
Jack
Racetronix
No, you are in error!
Under high alternator load / charge conditions the voltage drop across the alternator's output and battery terminals can exceed 1.5 volts. This is because the factory alternator wire is not thick enough to handle a 90+ amp charge current without substantial voltage drop. Under WOT conditions the voltage at the alternator can be 14.5 while at the battery it can be 12.5. There are also deficiencies with the factory grounding system that is why we supply a ground upgrade kit with brass battery nuts. We have done our homework in this area now it is time to do yours.
Jack
Racetronix
Dunno what car your using to test on but you can't possible think a correct charging system is only going to have 12.5 volts at the battery when the alternator is putting out 14.5. Like I have said. Were not dealing with a unit thats drawing 90amps...
BTW these cars have more than enough grounds to support plenty. Maybe someone needs the ground upgrade if they are having issues with the orginal grounds.
#57
Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Dunno what car your using to test on but you can't possible think a correct charging system is only going to have 12.5 volts at the battery when the alternator is putting out 14.5. Like I have said. Were not dealing with a unit thats drawing 90amps...
BTW these cars have more than enough grounds to support plenty. Maybe someone needs the ground upgrade if they are having issues with the orginal grounds.
Dunno what car your using to test on but you can't possible think a correct charging system is only going to have 12.5 volts at the battery when the alternator is putting out 14.5. Like I have said. Were not dealing with a unit thats drawing 90amps...
BTW these cars have more than enough grounds to support plenty. Maybe someone needs the ground upgrade if they are having issues with the orginal grounds.
GM and all other car manufacturers use wiring that is marginally acceptable to reduce production costs and vehicle weight. We are trying to squeeze every last little ounce of electrical juice out of the system in order to boost pump performance. This is no different than your high-end stereo shop installing monster cable to supply large power amplifiers.
I can sit here all day trying to educate you on electrical theory and how to run tests to satisfy your curiosity / disbelief. Bottom line is that I know what I am talking about as I have run these tests and I know how to run them as I have a background in electronics technology. I don't make BS claims either. I would much rather have you spend some time poking around your car learning this things for yourself than sitting here debating what has already been proven.
Jack
Racetronix
Last edited by Racetronix; 05-02-2003 at 12:26 PM.
#58
Originally posted by Racetronix
Under WOT the vehicle's electrical systems will easily place a high current load on the battery / charging system. Factor in a less than fully charged battery and you have some serious current demands on the alternator. Some N2O systems such as TNT have solenoids which draw 35-40 amps per pair which adds further load to the electrical system. It is quite common for the combined electrical load to exceed 90 amps. Voltage drop across a wire is calculated by squaring the current flowing through it and then multiplying the squared current by the wires resistance (V=I2R). A 10Ga wire with crimped terminals flowing 90+ amps can easily drop 1+ volts across its length. Go place your digital volt meter between your alternator's output and battery + and then start your car. Watch the voltage drop reading on your meter while the alternator starts to charge the battery and float your electrical system draw. You can also run your car and turn on your A/C RW defog, HB headlamps, radio, interior lamps etc. to simulate a high load condition and then go back and measure the voltage being dropped across the alternator's output wire. You can perform this same test on the ground side between the alternator's case and multiple ground points on the chassis.
GM and all other car manufacturers use wiring that is marginally acceptable to reduce production costs and vehicle weight. We are trying to squeeze every last little ounce of electrical juice out of the system in order to boost pump performance. This is no different than your high-end stereo shop installing monster cable to supply large power amplifiers.
I can sit here all day trying to educate you on electrical theory and how to run tests to satisfy your curiosity / disbelief. Bottom line is that I know what I am talking about as I have run these tests and I know how to run them as I have a background in electronics technology. I don't make BS claims either. I would much rather have you spend some time poking around your car learning this things for yourself than sitting here debating what has already been proven.
Jack
Racetronix
Under WOT the vehicle's electrical systems will easily place a high current load on the battery / charging system. Factor in a less than fully charged battery and you have some serious current demands on the alternator. Some N2O systems such as TNT have solenoids which draw 35-40 amps per pair which adds further load to the electrical system. It is quite common for the combined electrical load to exceed 90 amps. Voltage drop across a wire is calculated by squaring the current flowing through it and then multiplying the squared current by the wires resistance (V=I2R). A 10Ga wire with crimped terminals flowing 90+ amps can easily drop 1+ volts across its length. Go place your digital volt meter between your alternator's output and battery + and then start your car. Watch the voltage drop reading on your meter while the alternator starts to charge the battery and float your electrical system draw. You can also run your car and turn on your A/C RW defog, HB headlamps, radio, interior lamps etc. to simulate a high load condition and then go back and measure the voltage being dropped across the alternator's output wire. You can perform this same test on the ground side between the alternator's case and multiple ground points on the chassis.
GM and all other car manufacturers use wiring that is marginally acceptable to reduce production costs and vehicle weight. We are trying to squeeze every last little ounce of electrical juice out of the system in order to boost pump performance. This is no different than your high-end stereo shop installing monster cable to supply large power amplifiers.
I can sit here all day trying to educate you on electrical theory and how to run tests to satisfy your curiosity / disbelief. Bottom line is that I know what I am talking about as I have run these tests and I know how to run them as I have a background in electronics technology. I don't make BS claims either. I would much rather have you spend some time poking around your car learning this things for yourself than sitting here debating what has already been proven.
Jack
Racetronix
BTW No need to educate me! I have a associates degree in Electronics and I understand theory very well.
#59
Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Your right we could talk about this all day. Also a alternator current will vary low-high voltage with rpms. You are correct on the pulling 90+ amps but last I checked nobody rides around with everything (and I mean everything)going at the same time and running full blast.
BTW No need to educate me! I have a associates degree in Electronics and I understand theory very well.
Your right we could talk about this all day. Also a alternator current will vary low-high voltage with rpms. You are correct on the pulling 90+ amps but last I checked nobody rides around with everything (and I mean everything)going at the same time and running full blast.
BTW No need to educate me! I have a associates degree in Electronics and I understand theory very well.
IGN system draw = 5-7 amps
Headlamps + marker + tail lamps 10-15 amps
Blower fan = 5+ amps
Car Stereo = 3+ amps
Injectors = 5+ amps
Fuel Pump = 7+ amps
Dash Lamps, gauges, ECM, BCM = 10+ amps
Cooling Fans 15-20+ Amps
Trans control, TCC, 2+ Amps
-------------
TOTAL 74 Amps give or take a bit WITHOUT power adders such as N2O or heavy draw items like A/C clutch and RW defogger.
What about the battery charge which we did not factor in? In many cases you will find that you are taking more out than your alternator can put in.
Put a current clamp meter on the battery and alternator cables and check it out for yourself.
Please go back and do your math.
Jack
Racetronix
Last edited by Racetronix; 05-02-2003 at 12:45 PM.
#60
Originally posted by Racetronix
So you mean to say someone driving on the HWY just so happens to pull up beside a Mustang would not have:
IGN system draw = 5-7 amps
Headlamps + marker + tail lamps 10-15 amps
Blower fan = 5+ amps
Car Stereo = 3+ amps
Injectors = 5+ amps
Fuel Pump = 7+ amps
Dash Lamps, gauges, ECM, BCM = 10+ amps
Cooling Fans 15-20+ Amps
Trans control, TCC, 2+ Amps
-------------
TOTAL 74 Amps give or take a bit WITHOUT power adders such as N2O or heavy draw items like A/C clutch and RW defogger.
Please go back and do your math.
Jack
Racetronix
So you mean to say someone driving on the HWY just so happens to pull up beside a Mustang would not have:
IGN system draw = 5-7 amps
Headlamps + marker + tail lamps 10-15 amps
Blower fan = 5+ amps
Car Stereo = 3+ amps
Injectors = 5+ amps
Fuel Pump = 7+ amps
Dash Lamps, gauges, ECM, BCM = 10+ amps
Cooling Fans 15-20+ Amps
Trans control, TCC, 2+ Amps
-------------
TOTAL 74 Amps give or take a bit WITHOUT power adders such as N2O or heavy draw items like A/C clutch and RW defogger.
Please go back and do your math.
Jack
Racetronix
74 amps isn't 90amps. And your even stretching those #s. Like I have said the fuel pump or pumps don't pull that much. But by all means everyone please attach your connection to the alternator for mr. Jack....