going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
#16
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
and as shown the same power has been made with a $1450 set of ported stock castings at lower boost instead of a much more expensive aftermarket casting. You also haven't said anything about cam size or intercooling which would be a major advantage.
A recurring theme is that guys who spend MORE to get the same result get more attention because they have fancy expensive parts.
You also have yet to even address a single example of the stock crank being less than adequate. In my over a decade on these forums I am still not aware of anyone overpowering a stock crank, it is a good piece.
A recurring theme is that guys who spend MORE to get the same result get more attention because they have fancy expensive parts.
You also have yet to even address a single example of the stock crank being less than adequate. In my over a decade on these forums I am still not aware of anyone overpowering a stock crank, it is a good piece.
#17
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
I like Scat rods and a 2618 forged piston. JE and Diamond are great pistons. Mahle makes an inverted dome 2618 piston as well for less IIRC. Some use Probe. SRP are nice but are iffy at 600rw. They would survive on a spot on tune.
Look here: High Performance Engine Parts | Custom Built Race Engines | CNC Motorsports | Car Parts | Truck Parts | Competition Engines
Looking here JE has the best price of the three.
Look here: High Performance Engine Parts | Custom Built Race Engines | CNC Motorsports | Car Parts | Truck Parts | Competition Engines
Looking here JE has the best price of the three.
Last edited by Purple Poncho; 07-25-2012 at 10:47 AM. Reason: JE has the best price
#18
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
So no attempt to site a single example of a stock crank failing from power????
You running 8s with 570rwhp?
Just to back up my statements a bit.
Advanced Induction - Results
http://advancedinduction.com/Images/.../ToryZDyno.jpg
You running 8s with 570rwhp?
Just to back up my statements a bit.
Advanced Induction - Results
http://advancedinduction.com/Images/.../ToryZDyno.jpg
[url]http://advancedinduction.com/Images/Results/DynoSheets/ToryZDyno.jpg[/url
I made about the the same power with the same set up but old smaller cam, 1 psi more and NON PORTED STOCK HEADS. 134 mph in the 1/4 as well.
#19
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
I like the advice and what u guys have to say about set ups. But can we maybe try to tune down the bashing a lil lol what about rings. What am I gona look for or need for about 12-16 lbs boost. Thanks guys
#20
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
I honestly dont think you need anything special. I have JE inverted domes in my 400 with JE performance piston rings which are just a regular type ring. Gapped at .021" top .023" bottom I believe, i forget my build notes. I'd have to look it up. Been fine at ~700whp and 140+ mph traps at 14-18psi boost. Good ring seal and no issues.
What fuel system are you planning? single pump may feed 600whp with a hot wire kit but thats pushing it. May be better with dual pumps.
If trying to squeeze that much power out of a single 255lph, then run atleast 60lb injectors. Keep fuel pressure down low or else the single 255 wont keep up. Now a 340lph pump may but I dont know many using those yet. If duals you can run higher pressures and smaller injectors since the pumps will overcome the loss in flow at higher pressure.
I'm on duals and will be looking for 1000whp this year. Not entirely worried about my rings and stuff as long as the tune is kept in order
600whp should be within reach with good head and cam package. 14-15psi should easily get you there. Dynos are a tool, not everyone's numbers are comparable. We have dynos in my area that will read 70 or more whp LESS than others. I dyno'd on that dyno and made 640 on 12-12.5 psi on a rich tune and conservative timing. That be over 700 on some of these other dynojets in the area. It made 690 on 17psi on that dyno but was pig rich as i never tuned that section of the map on the street or track and just made a pass on dyno to see what it would do. Dynos are tools...not for comparing. Just the way it is but the traps and weight of car tell the true story.
What fuel system are you planning? single pump may feed 600whp with a hot wire kit but thats pushing it. May be better with dual pumps.
If trying to squeeze that much power out of a single 255lph, then run atleast 60lb injectors. Keep fuel pressure down low or else the single 255 wont keep up. Now a 340lph pump may but I dont know many using those yet. If duals you can run higher pressures and smaller injectors since the pumps will overcome the loss in flow at higher pressure.
I'm on duals and will be looking for 1000whp this year. Not entirely worried about my rings and stuff as long as the tune is kept in order
600whp should be within reach with good head and cam package. 14-15psi should easily get you there. Dynos are a tool, not everyone's numbers are comparable. We have dynos in my area that will read 70 or more whp LESS than others. I dyno'd on that dyno and made 640 on 12-12.5 psi on a rich tune and conservative timing. That be over 700 on some of these other dynojets in the area. It made 690 on 17psi on that dyno but was pig rich as i never tuned that section of the map on the street or track and just made a pass on dyno to see what it would do. Dynos are tools...not for comparing. Just the way it is but the traps and weight of car tell the true story.
#21
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
Purple if I knew what the track times were for the car I sited I would certainly post them.
Your own example supports that the aftermarket casting the other guy is using are a huge waste of cash.
Sounds like you see no problem with the stock crank either as you just recommended rods and pistons like I had. So in a lot of ways you are agreeing with me. I would still ask if your setup was intercooled.
Let's get back to the technical end of things, who has evidence the stock crank wont handle say 600rwhp?
Your own example supports that the aftermarket casting the other guy is using are a huge waste of cash.
Sounds like you see no problem with the stock crank either as you just recommended rods and pistons like I had. So in a lot of ways you are agreeing with me. I would still ask if your setup was intercooled.
Let's get back to the technical end of things, who has evidence the stock crank wont handle say 600rwhp?
#22
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
Remember boost is a measure of restriction...smaller port head may see more boost for the same power level simply because of the restrictions. Doesnt mean one setup is better than the other but I'm a big fan of less boost when possible as its easier to seal lower pressure at the gaskets and intercooler piping
#23
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
one thing you want to figure out is how long you want it to live at that power and if you can afford for it to kick a rod out going though the trap at 130+mph.
#25
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
Im running a single, in tank walbro 255lph. the cam I have Is a cc lt1 extreme blower cam or somethin like that lol. my heads wer off my buddys 383. There stock heads but a machine shop overhauled them. Idk exactly whats done to them machining wise but I was told there just about as good as the trickflows summit sells. As for power adder, vortech t trim. I want the power to last a long time but the whole problem with building it to last is.... I dont have the time with work and all, so id have to pay a place to do it. And between parts and labor... I dont have the money flowing good enuf for that yet. So... Here are the options I have come to... Take out a loan first lol, I buy pistons, rings and rods for my 355 (stock crank), or buy a shortblock already set up for boost, or buy my friends shortblock. Both 383's and forged. If I get for boost I can drop it in no problem. but there a pending sale on it already. If I get my friends, id have to sit on it till christmas and buy different pistons..... What u guys think is best option
#26
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
Rods pistons stock crank 355 should get you in the 500-600whp depending on boost and be plenty for you and live along time if the tune is good. With blower, boost is linear just about so its easier to tune. Compression i'd shoot for mid 9's to 1 but with good tune I would think 10 to 1 would be doable on a LT1 with few pounds of boost. The heads/cam will do alot of the work and get you near 600whp. Can always add a meth injection setup if its borderline on detonation but I doubt it. I've seen those motors live with some healthy boost
#27
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
Rods pistons stock crank 355 should get you in the 500-600whp depending on boost and be plenty for you and live along time if the tune is good. With blower, boost is linear just about so its easier to tune. Compression i'd shoot for mid 9's to 1 but with good tune I would think 10 to 1 would be doable on a LT1 with few pounds of boost. The heads/cam will do alot of the work and get you near 600whp. Can always add a meth injection setup if its borderline on detonation but I doubt it. I've seen those motors live with some healthy boost
#28
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
I agree with the above. Listen to the guys that have done this and take internet experts with a grain of salt.
If I had one recommendation it would be to not go into debt for this project. Use debt for education, a house, etc. Not something you will be tinkering with and sometimes fighting with all the while shelling xxx$/month on.
If I were you I'd use what you have.
Stock crank. Buy Scat H beams 432$ . Buy pistons. The JEs are 684$ from the above site and will be about 9.5-1 with stock CC heads. Not sure what CC you have. The Icon pistons will be ~9.75-1 and cost 470$.
For the fuel system you can do a double pumper or just add an inline pump 130$ if you want to save money. 80# injector 400$ from Racetronix.
Ebay intercooler kit probably 250$. Meth kit 680$ from Alkycontrol. A wideband is highly recommended and tuning software/laptop.
Go with whatever ring package come with the pistons. Hellfire rings are probably overkill. Pulley the blower to max out just before the peak RPM of your cam. Boost will come in faster and harder.
So Scat/JE/Walbro inline pump/injectors/intercooler/meth you are at $2575 no tax. shipping or labour or if you can find better prices then my quick internet searches.
Good luck.
If I had one recommendation it would be to not go into debt for this project. Use debt for education, a house, etc. Not something you will be tinkering with and sometimes fighting with all the while shelling xxx$/month on.
If I were you I'd use what you have.
Stock crank. Buy Scat H beams 432$ . Buy pistons. The JEs are 684$ from the above site and will be about 9.5-1 with stock CC heads. Not sure what CC you have. The Icon pistons will be ~9.75-1 and cost 470$.
For the fuel system you can do a double pumper or just add an inline pump 130$ if you want to save money. 80# injector 400$ from Racetronix.
Ebay intercooler kit probably 250$. Meth kit 680$ from Alkycontrol. A wideband is highly recommended and tuning software/laptop.
Go with whatever ring package come with the pistons. Hellfire rings are probably overkill. Pulley the blower to max out just before the peak RPM of your cam. Boost will come in faster and harder.
So Scat/JE/Walbro inline pump/injectors/intercooler/meth you are at $2575 no tax. shipping or labour or if you can find better prices then my quick internet searches.
Good luck.
#29
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
I'd aim for about 9.5-1 give or take as Orr suggested. 8.5 is too low.
#30
Re: going boosted for the first time. piston and ring ideas?
I will have 80 lbs siemens for sale in about a week or so...just ordered 115's so i wont need em. 60's would fit your build, dual pumps or inline as suggested would be "best" but not absolutely necessary. hot wired or boost a pump type single walbro may feed it. Should feed 500whp no problem but the 600 level would be pushing it. Need to keep pressure low to have a shot as walbro 255's output and any pump for that matter goes down with high pressure. Single 340lph drop in should also do well and support that power. 500-600whp is a lot of power in a car, so with your bottom end, keep rpms lower and you will have a good running car on a budget. 500whp in good chassis is a mid 10 second car
Also find out the duration and lift numbers on that cam...you really dont need to go to big here and dont want to be revving super high with stock crank and those hp levels. Dont think it will be a problem but its safer to keep it lower rpm wise. Less stresses on things. Simple 220's deg duration with about 10-12 deg split for the blower is about what i'd run. cc305 cam is like that.
Again 500-600 doesnt take much to get to with good heads/intake and some boost.
Also find out the duration and lift numbers on that cam...you really dont need to go to big here and dont want to be revving super high with stock crank and those hp levels. Dont think it will be a problem but its safer to keep it lower rpm wise. Less stresses on things. Simple 220's deg duration with about 10-12 deg split for the blower is about what i'd run. cc305 cam is like that.
Again 500-600 doesnt take much to get to with good heads/intake and some boost.
Last edited by Orr89rocz; 07-26-2012 at 03:40 PM.