Question on the sheet metal intakes for the FI cars...
06-14-2008, 07:37 AM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: IN
Posts: 3,225
Question on the sheet metal intakes for the FI cars...
I see them primarily on the F1 setups, but could they be used on a D1SC application such as mine? If it would work, what benefits/power would I possibly gain by doing the switch? All I currently have is the stock LT1 intake hand ported to match my 58mm TB and my heads.
*NOTE:
I'm sure someone like Ponyhntr will jump on here and know exactly the answer to this.
*NOTE:
I'm sure someone like Ponyhntr will jump on here and know exactly the answer to this.
06-14-2008, 08:18 AM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: FL
Posts: 397
Ben,
It can be done. I originally was going for a single plane setup but changed at the last minute as I didn't want to shell out anther 2K in parts etc. Most that have done gain on average 50hp from what I've seen. Their topend increases dramatically too from what I've seen. Only issues I'm aware of is idling for some. Is it worth it? It's up to the individual. What's another 2K?
Oh, sheet metal? Geez......mega money. Still the same in regards to cost associated I believe but the benefit--I'm unsure of.
It can be done. I originally was going for a single plane setup but changed at the last minute as I didn't want to shell out anther 2K in parts etc. Most that have done gain on average 50hp from what I've seen. Their topend increases dramatically too from what I've seen. Only issues I'm aware of is idling for some. Is it worth it? It's up to the individual. What's another 2K?
Oh, sheet metal? Geez......mega money. Still the same in regards to cost associated I believe but the benefit--I'm unsure of.
06-14-2008, 11:59 AM
#3
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: IN
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WOW 
! I had no idea they were that much money! But I also had no idea so much could be gained by them 
Is there only one company out there making them? Or are there different ones? And where can I get them?
Also, what all is involved in the swap? It seems as though I'd need to get a different TB, and possible different plumbing for the intake as well. Would I need to modify my hood to clearance it?
Pics would be nice if anyone has any.
! I had no idea they were that much money! But I also had no idea so much could be gained by them Is there only one company out there making them? Or are there different ones? And where can I get them?
Also, what all is involved in the swap? It seems as though I'd need to get a different TB, and possible different plumbing for the intake as well. Would I need to modify my hood to clearance it?
Pics would be nice if anyone has any.
06-15-2008, 09:50 AM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: IN
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If able, I'd like info on both, and also if able, could you please just post it up here so anyone else also interested in this could have the info? (Unless its from a non-sponsered member or something that would get in trouble over you publisizing them on the board, then you can PM me)
06-15-2008, 09:55 AM
#8
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Location: Ft.hood/Ft.worth/Iraq
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posting it here in not issue i just wont be able to name the shop that did it. sometimes that non sponser thing is gay... let me see if i can track down some pics and stuff on my intake and il post it up asap.
06-15-2008, 01:16 PM
#9
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Location: Ft.hood/Ft.worth/Iraq
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cant find any pics. the car is in texas and im in south carolina. basically this is the deal to convert to a SBC single plane intake.
PARTS:
- intake (i used a E Efi intake p/n edl-29785 from summit)
- fuel rails (used the ones that were designed for my intake p/n edl-3630)
- either a full fuel system or line adapters from the stock lines to the fuel rails. if you go this way you are on your own b/c i have a complete fuel system and non of it is close to being stock. if you keep the stock fuel lines you will need the adapters for the fuel lines to AN fittings and then you will need to get everything to plumb the lines to the rails and also to plumb in the fuel pressure regulator.
- fuel pressure regulator
- intake bolt kit
- distributor hole block off kit
- intake elbow/adapter depends on what throttle body you want to run.
- throttle cable depending on the type of throttle body you use
- a new bank account with more money....
ok thats just the basic parts for the converson. i went with the E efi b/c with that intake and my intake elbow it clears a stock WS6 hood with some of the back side cut out. as far as i know its the lowest intake to get.
MAKING THE INTAKE FIT:
once you get the intake you will soon realize that the bolt holes are way off so you will need to address this in one of two ways;
1. drill and tap the heads for the intake bolt pattern
2. drill holes in the intake to match the head bolt pattern
I went with drilling new holes in the intake. if i were to do it again i would drill the intake bolt patern into the heads. when you change the bolt pattern on the intake on the pass side 3rd bolt from front is a bitch and so is the 2nd from front on the drivers side b/c the plenum is right over the bolt hole. this is the reason il never do that again.
you can either do this yourself or get a shop to do it. if you want to drill the holes in the intake i could say just do it yourself if you think you can do it. if you wanna drill and tap new holes in the heads then if you are a bad *** go fro it and do it yourself but for the rest of us the machine shop is a good idea.
ADDRESSING THE MAP SENSOR: you can use your stock map sensor you will just have to tap into the intake where ever you want (i tapped into the intake elbow) for a vacuum/boost reference. you can find fittings at your local parts store that are barbed one side and npt threads on the other end. just make sure the barbed end is the same size as the nipple on the map sensor. tap the hole on the intake, screw in the fitting, mount your map sensor somewhere (mounted mine on the homemade dizzy block off plate bolt) and use a vacuum line to connect the map nipple to the barbed fitting and just is a zip tie to hole the hose unless you plan on running like 8000lbs of boost then you might wanna not use a LT1 for this application. iv talked to a few guys that just use zip ties with no issue on like 20lbs of boost. if you are not comfy with it then you can go find some super small hose clams.
BRAKE SYSTEM VACUUM:
on the back of the intake is a threaded hole (forget the size) you can get a fitting with barbed end on it to use for the brake booster vacuum line. USE A HOSE CLAMP ON THIS.
WATER CROSS OVER:
you can do anything you want to with it... use it to store ****, fill it with concrete, grow plans in it, use a block off plate on it, have it totally removed like i did. as you know the sbc coolant cross over/t-stat housing is different than a LT1. NO water runs through those ports since there is no ports there on the LT1 heads.
FUEL SYSTEM:
the stock fuel rails wont fit so dont even try it just save the time on doing it right. since you cannot use the stockers you must go with what ever rails will work on your intake and use a aftermarkey fuel pressure regulator. there are so many ways to do this that i will not get into it. if you have a specific question ask and il answer it to the best of my ability
THROTTLE BODY AND ELBOW
there are multiple way for this as well soooo. you can get a elbow that is made to use a stock style throttle body or you can just got LS1/ford style. what ever way you roll make sure you have a inlet idle control valve. if you go anything other than stock you will most likely run into wire issue but not worries its just a connector swap.
THROTTLE CABLE:
ok this is another tricky area. you can use your stock cable like i am doing if you can find the wire ends (just made my own). if you get a elbow that is made for a stock style throttle body all you will have to do is either make a mount of the stock cable or just get a aftermarket one like a locar or w/e its called. i dont have p/ns for this but iv been told its about 48" long. this part is for some reason for me to explain. im using a wilson 90mm throttle body and wilso elbow with was all designed for a aftermarket throttle cable but im smart and made my stock cable work. il see how that works once the car is running.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by doing this swap you will lose all emissions and evac stuff. and your swap might be different than mine. i quite possibly could have left something out b/c i did this swap in Jan and i have a horrible memory.
if im missing something someone please tell me so i can update this.
PARTS:
- intake (i used a E Efi intake p/n edl-29785 from summit)
- fuel rails (used the ones that were designed for my intake p/n edl-3630)
- either a full fuel system or line adapters from the stock lines to the fuel rails. if you go this way you are on your own b/c i have a complete fuel system and non of it is close to being stock. if you keep the stock fuel lines you will need the adapters for the fuel lines to AN fittings and then you will need to get everything to plumb the lines to the rails and also to plumb in the fuel pressure regulator.
- fuel pressure regulator
- intake bolt kit
- distributor hole block off kit
- intake elbow/adapter depends on what throttle body you want to run.
- throttle cable depending on the type of throttle body you use
- a new bank account with more money....
ok thats just the basic parts for the converson. i went with the E efi b/c with that intake and my intake elbow it clears a stock WS6 hood with some of the back side cut out. as far as i know its the lowest intake to get.
MAKING THE INTAKE FIT:
once you get the intake you will soon realize that the bolt holes are way off so you will need to address this in one of two ways;
1. drill and tap the heads for the intake bolt pattern
2. drill holes in the intake to match the head bolt pattern
I went with drilling new holes in the intake. if i were to do it again i would drill the intake bolt patern into the heads. when you change the bolt pattern on the intake on the pass side 3rd bolt from front is a bitch and so is the 2nd from front on the drivers side b/c the plenum is right over the bolt hole. this is the reason il never do that again.
you can either do this yourself or get a shop to do it. if you want to drill the holes in the intake i could say just do it yourself if you think you can do it. if you wanna drill and tap new holes in the heads then if you are a bad *** go fro it and do it yourself but for the rest of us the machine shop is a good idea.
ADDRESSING THE MAP SENSOR: you can use your stock map sensor you will just have to tap into the intake where ever you want (i tapped into the intake elbow) for a vacuum/boost reference. you can find fittings at your local parts store that are barbed one side and npt threads on the other end. just make sure the barbed end is the same size as the nipple on the map sensor. tap the hole on the intake, screw in the fitting, mount your map sensor somewhere (mounted mine on the homemade dizzy block off plate bolt) and use a vacuum line to connect the map nipple to the barbed fitting and just is a zip tie to hole the hose unless you plan on running like 8000lbs of boost then you might wanna not use a LT1 for this application. iv talked to a few guys that just use zip ties with no issue on like 20lbs of boost. if you are not comfy with it then you can go find some super small hose clams.
BRAKE SYSTEM VACUUM:
on the back of the intake is a threaded hole (forget the size) you can get a fitting with barbed end on it to use for the brake booster vacuum line. USE A HOSE CLAMP ON THIS.
WATER CROSS OVER:
you can do anything you want to with it... use it to store ****, fill it with concrete, grow plans in it, use a block off plate on it, have it totally removed like i did. as you know the sbc coolant cross over/t-stat housing is different than a LT1. NO water runs through those ports since there is no ports there on the LT1 heads.
FUEL SYSTEM:
the stock fuel rails wont fit so dont even try it just save the time on doing it right. since you cannot use the stockers you must go with what ever rails will work on your intake and use a aftermarkey fuel pressure regulator. there are so many ways to do this that i will not get into it. if you have a specific question ask and il answer it to the best of my ability
THROTTLE BODY AND ELBOW
there are multiple way for this as well soooo. you can get a elbow that is made to use a stock style throttle body or you can just got LS1/ford style. what ever way you roll make sure you have a inlet idle control valve. if you go anything other than stock you will most likely run into wire issue but not worries its just a connector swap.
THROTTLE CABLE:
ok this is another tricky area. you can use your stock cable like i am doing if you can find the wire ends (just made my own). if you get a elbow that is made for a stock style throttle body all you will have to do is either make a mount of the stock cable or just get a aftermarket one like a locar or w/e its called. i dont have p/ns for this but iv been told its about 48" long. this part is for some reason for me to explain. im using a wilson 90mm throttle body and wilso elbow with was all designed for a aftermarket throttle cable but im smart and made my stock cable work. il see how that works once the car is running.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by doing this swap you will lose all emissions and evac stuff. and your swap might be different than mine. i quite possibly could have left something out b/c i did this swap in Jan and i have a horrible memory.
if im missing something someone please tell me so i can update this.
06-15-2008, 04:34 PM
#11
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ft.hood/Ft.worth/Iraq
Posts: 676
car isnt running right now so i donno.... im sure you will lose boost by like 1-2lbs b/c this intake flows better than a LT1 intake but it also depends on the heads too. you will gain some power but only on FI motors b/c in order to use this intake n/a you need to be spinning the hell out of the motor to use it correctly.
over all the intake swap alone was like $800 the entire fuel system was $1500 but that was a sumped tank, weldon pump, summit filter, all lines and fittings, and fuel pressure regualator.
if you wanted to do all this in your garage and not delete the coolant cross over you could prolly do it for like 400-500 bucks w/o fuel stuff. i would like to try the conversion on my own w/o a machine shop involved. too bad you are not from texas or i would hook you up.
over all the intake swap alone was like $800 the entire fuel system was $1500 but that was a sumped tank, weldon pump, summit filter, all lines and fittings, and fuel pressure regualator.
if you wanted to do all this in your garage and not delete the coolant cross over you could prolly do it for like 400-500 bucks w/o fuel stuff. i would like to try the conversion on my own w/o a machine shop involved. too bad you are not from texas or i would hook you up.
06-16-2008, 08:10 AM
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lees Summit, MO
Posts: 946
I am by no means an expert in this area, as I have not tried it (as of now), but for you Ben, and your power level, it would likely be a waste of money. I'm a firm believer that on forced induction applications the factory intakes are not bad at all. Hell, look at my car. I'm running a STOCK LT4 intake, NOT PORTED, with a STOCK 48mm throttle body.
Don't get me wrong, single plane and sheetmetal intakes have their place (expecially in N/A apps), but with single plane conversions running close to 2k, and just a sheetmetal intake alone being $3K++, it's just not worth the money.
Just my $.02.
Don't get me wrong, single plane and sheetmetal intakes have their place (expecially in N/A apps), but with single plane conversions running close to 2k, and just a sheetmetal intake alone being $3K++, it's just not worth the money.
Just my $.02.
06-16-2008, 11:06 AM
#13
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,705
3k for a sheetmetal and 2k for a single plane seems kinda pricey. I havent really looked into this too much but have poked around with it with some of the potential builds im am going to pursue.
I not saying your wrong by any means, just seems kind of high.
I not saying your wrong by any means, just seems kind of high.
06-16-2008, 11:52 AM
#14
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florence, Kentucky
Posts: 1,546
I am by no means an expert in this area, as I have not tried it (as of now), but for you Ben, and your power level, it would likely be a waste of money. I'm a firm believer that on forced induction applications the factory intakes are not bad at all. Hell, look at my car. I'm running a STOCK LT4 intake, NOT PORTED, with a STOCK 48mm throttle body.
Don't get me wrong, single plane and sheetmetal intakes have their place (expecially in N/A apps), but with single plane conversions running close to 2k, and just a sheetmetal intake alone being $3K++, it's just not worth the money.
Just my $.02.
Don't get me wrong, single plane and sheetmetal intakes have their place (expecially in N/A apps), but with single plane conversions running close to 2k, and just a sheetmetal intake alone being $3K++, it's just not worth the money.
Just my $.02.
Last edited by 97WS6Pilot; 06-16-2008 at 01:40 PM.
06-16-2008, 02:23 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ft.hood/Ft.worth/Iraq
Posts: 676
for the guys saying it would be a waste of time... kinda right unless you plan on big power. for a street car i would just stick with the LT1/4 intake. i would use a bigger throttle body just for better throttle response though. its all about what you want out of the car. i was in the position to do it so i did but kinda on impulse.
someone said something about 2k for a single plane conversion... $1200 should be the norm on average.
someone said something about 2k for a single plane conversion... $1200 should be the norm on average.